Question on a concept map

[Regorty]

I was playing Minecraft the other day and got to thinking. What if I were to recreate those old underground fortress-like structures I used to make. Basically, it would be an underground complex lit mostly by lava, maybe an occasional torch or two. These complex's would have hallways that run into the sides of caves, not fully exposing themselves but enough to where a sort of window could be made. and the idea is to have a cavern map with spider-carved out tunnels, full of nasty spiders of course, and you would see some of these tunnels and there would be one that you could access and run around in fighting.. something and get some loot. I can work on basic concept map ideas, basically boxes showing what I mean.

Sorry if I am unable to describe it as much as I wanted to, but maybe I can recreate one on Minecraft and post it here and we can figure something out. Just have to make sure that it can be lava filled. Oh and I haven't forgotten about my temple map yet, I thought of this while planing the next section of that map.

 

[Thothie]

Sounds viable - lighting by lava is pretty common. Do have to be a bit careful, as sometimes animated texture brushes will render everywhere - but usually it's not too much trouble.

If you need the lava to scroll vertically, you'll have to rig a custom scroll texture - but that's as simple as exporting the !lava texture and sticking it back in prefixed with "scroll" and without the "!"... Animated !liquid textures usually cannot be placed vertically.

We do have a spider map, as a result of the media contest, however, I intend to work on whichever map won the contest first (after I'm done with Cyax's here, as that started a few months ago)... However... I still don't actually know who won the map contest. >< (I don't see any winner announcements anywhere, actually - and the only reason I know the other winners, is because the other divisions only had one entry a piece).

 

[Regorty]

Ok, how about a map similar to Old_Helena but instead of orcs you are defending a temple, of great importance, from hordes of undead, demons, and the Kharaztorant Cult. Halfway through the map the ground would open up spewing out warriors from hell, which can be both undead and demons (maybe even flying demons) with full fire and cold immunity to make the defending map a whole hell of a lot harder. The intended difficulty would be for max level players.

The temple/church would have special breaching points which the enemy can attack certain walls to more easily get to the critical npcs. the building would be arranged in 2 circles, the outer circle and a courtyard in the middle, kind of like a Donut. The outer circle would hold 4 critical npcs and a couple of holy warriors. They would be the hardest to keep alive but would give the player 1 special item. The critical npc in the courtyard would function like a merchant allowing you to buy items. I don't think there would be a need for any loot chests.

The undead would attack from all sides, starting with weaker undead and cultists and progress up to the most powerful undead, cultists and demons. When the ground opens up the map gets a whole like harder when the epic monsters come out to play. In the end there would be 4 bosses all equally annoyingly powerful to kill, maybe one of each race.

The Humans would spawn in the temple center and talk to a npc and start the mission, so the players would have some time to prepare before the onslaught. There would be a balcony of holy mages (only a few of them) that would use rebuke undead to assist the players. Maybe even have additional allies come in later in the map (maybe..) to make things feel like that this battle is kind of a big deal.

This is just a map idea brought to me while listening to ms_chaos. Of course that song will have to play in that map, there is no ifs, ands or buts about it! It has to play! Anyways, I think this map idea would be unrealistic and prolly lead to a great many of headaches and crashes. But I just wanted to say something other then having it be forgotten and never thought of again. Please tell me if something like this is possible or just too much for HL1 engine to handle. Thanks!

 

[zeus9860]

Just a fyi, khaz cult is a group of demons on their own. Kinda easy to see that when u go to their fortress map, it's one of their lairs, plus we have this one map with the word demon in it, also giving it away, easy mode...

Too lazy to read the rest of the post for now, i'll finish it tommorow, but from what i seen, sounded interisting, though lazyness comes first on my free time schedule...

 

[Thothie]

[spoilers]
Well, the Khaz cult worships the dragon Kharaztorant, and are suffering/benefiting from various powers and stages of mutation granted by "dragon goo", as he attempts to create a vessel powerful enough to house his soul, and thus gain immortality. (All of the dragons reaching the tail end of their years, Khaz and Aeldorandorat, in particular.) Lore plan is to have Kharaztorant actually succeed (thanks to some inadvertent or deliberate help from the players), and show up as a main bad guy (humanoid with transformation and dragon spirit overlay powers) with roving armies, bent conquering the surface world, in MSS. While Aeldorandorat actually dies, in MSS, the first time the players meet him in Kray Eldorad (with a rather complex last will and testament quest to ask of them). The other two evil dragons (Jaminporlants and Rhudeanlorat) are to eventually be defeated by the players in MSC.

(Mind you, I'm not entirely sure these old lore scenarios of mine will actually be adopted by MSS at this point, but this was the plan...)
[/spoilers]

The Shadahar orcs have a problem, in that the source of their power is Shadahar Palace, and they become weaker, the further they are away from it. So part of the plan (with the same caveat), was to introduce the concept of Shadahar Cairns, points of mystic power the Shadahar use to extend their reach, that the players would either work towards destroying, or bolster, depending on which quest alignment they were aiming towards.

So, lore wise, in MSC, it could be that such a "church/temple" is a "prototype" Cairn of sorts, possibly being built on some ancient ruin as the source of its power. It's quite viable that any source of such power could be loaded with undead, and it maybe the Khaz cult would make a grab for that same source of power. Thus, yeah, you could wind up in a three way conflict.


I should warn ye, however, you are on the edge of suffering from an affliction commonly suffered by new would-be developers that causes them to never get off the ground, "developer's wandering eye". Don't get ahead of yourself - finish one project, before you start contemplating the next one. It's very difficult to get anything done, when you have this great idea in your head for another plan, making your current project seem less and less interesting. I've seen far too many mappers get these grand ideas into their heads, and then wind up never releasing anything at all.

It's also a shame that you seem to have no plans to do anything with that mine map.

 

[Regorty]

It's also a shame that you seem to have no plans to do anything with that mine map.

Wait, you want me to continue developing it? I thought once I submit it that I had to stop tinkering with it.

I should warn ye, however, you are on the edge of suffering from an affliction commonly suffered by new would-be developers that causes them to never get off the ground, "developer's wandering eye". Don't get ahead of yourself - finish one project, before you start contemplating the next one. It's very difficult to get anything done, when you have this great idea in your head for another plan, making your current project seem less and less interesting. I've seen far too many mappers get these grand ideas into their heads, and then wind up never releasing anything at all

I got the final boss room in the 'dessert' map and then to setup a teleport and a key that would be used to unlock the vault room with the loot. I made that vault room look pretty with blue lights, still working on it though.

The Shadahar orcs have a problem, in that the source of their power is Shadahar Palace, and they become weaker, the further they are away from it. So part of the plan (with the same caveat), was to introduce the concept of Shadahar Cairns, points of mystic power the Shadahar use to extend their reach, that the players would either work towards destroying, or bolster, depending on which quest alignment they were aiming towards.

So, lore wise, in MSC, it could be that such a "church/temple" is a "prototype" Cairn of sorts, possibly being built on some ancient ruin as the source of its power. It's quite viable that any source of such power could be loaded with undead, and it maybe the Khaz cult would make a grab for that same source of power. Thus, yeah, you could wind up in a three way conflict.

Actually the temple would be like one of those Balance temples.. or devoted to Urdal, however its spelt, and would be guarded by humans and holy mages. Hence why the undead and demons are attacking to disrupt the balance by destroying the temple and the priests inside.

[spoilers]
Well, the Khaz cult worships the dragon Kharaztorant, and are suffering/benefiting from various powers and stages of mutation granted by "dragon goo", as he attempts to create a vessel powerful enough to house his soul, and thus gain immortality. (All of the dragons reaching the tail end of their years, Khaz and Aeldorandorat, in particular.) Lore plan is to have Kharaztorant actually succeed (thanks to some inadvertent or deliberate help from the players), and show up as a main bad guy (humanoid with transformation and dragon spirit overlay powers) with roving armies, bent conquering the surface world, in MSS. While Aeldorandorat actually dies, in MSS, the first time the players meet him in Kray Eldorad (with a rather complex last will and testament quest to ask of them). The other two evil dragons (Jaminporlants and Rhudeanlorat) are to eventually be defeated by the players in MSC.

(Mind you, I'm not entirely sure these old lore scenarios of mine will actually be adopted by MSS at this point, but this was the plan...)
[/spoilers]

Well.. Sounds nice. I just didn't know you wanted the dragons to be the ultimate goal, since there is only one mission where you fight a ghost of one. But hey, maybe I can try to make it orientated to the Dragons some.

 

[Thothie]

Dragon's aren't the final goal in MSC - there's something, much worse... But they are near-end game, or tied in with the end game goals.

Actually the temple would be like one of those Balance temples.. or devoted to Urdal, however its spelt, and would be guarded by humans and holy mages. Hence why the undead and demons are attacking to disrupt the balance by destroying the temple and the priests inside.

How did I go and read Shadahar into that whole mess? Meh, musta been since we were chatting about a Shadahar coop map before.

But yes, Undeadz vs. Priests of Urdual is much easier. Lore with that is that such temples can become "unbalanced", and this makes dead restless (for some reason), along with various other repercussions (fissures, horrors, etc.). The bulk of the followers of Urdual are dwarves, mind you, for he is their founding god. The Edana temple was dug up by humans in an area where modern dwarves refuse to dig, though the temple itself is of dwarven construction (save the portions that have been restored by the townsfolk of Edana)... The duplicate humans priests running about the temple in Gate City, were, well, probably more about laziness than anything else.

Urdual does have a contingent of human worshipers though, and even a, much smaller, elven contingent - though the latter tend to take a more "balance of nature" approach to their worship, and also tend to like to stay hidden deep in the forests, for the bulk of the elves look upon them with disdain, if not outright hatred. They are thus unlikely to be found in such a temple. Still, one daring Eshu ranger to the rescue, perhaps even warning of the catastrophe to come, might make for an interesting NPC.

How the Khaz cult works into that, I'm not sure. Maybe they needed to summon something or other, and needed a broken temple to do it - or to carry out some other twisted magical experiment of their master, and thus plotted its corruption. There are several ways to corrupt such a temple - though when it isn't simply the result of extreme imbalance in the area, it usually entails corrupting an attendant of the temple, so it may even be you can work out some sort of "find the traitor in our midst" sub-plot.

 

[Regorty]

How the Khaz cult works into that, I'm not sure. Maybe they needed to summon something or other, and needed a broken temple to do it - or to carry out some other twisted magical experiment of their master, and thus plotted its corruption. There are several ways to corrupt such a temple - though when it isn't simply the result of extreme imbalance in the area, it usually entails corrupting an attendant of the temple, so it may even be you can work out some sort of "find the traitor in our midst" sub-plot.

Well I kind of figured that they saw opportunity in assisting undead (maybe nercomancers so it would appear that the undead didn't just wander in aimlessly) in their quest to destroy the temple, maybe destroying the temple allows for them to accomplish their task to free the dragon. A traitor sub-plot, maybe you can work that out if I ever get around to working on this map idea, keep in mind I'm still working on the 'dessert' temple and will prolly work on my mines map, even though I look at it and think, 'this map is complete shit, I should trash it' and then move on to another project. Though the map I am currently working on I want to make as complete as possible, less work for you that way, hopefully. BTW I heard there is a way for me to get high level offline characters for map testing, or was I told wrong?

 

[Thothie]

Kharaztorant isn't trapped, per say. Though he's underground, and he and the dwarven kingdom have clashed enough times to suggest he's somewhat restricted by them - but he has a lair somewhere, and seems to be satisfied with directing his cult's activities from there, through the Hollow Ones. The cult is drawn up from mostly human stock, oddly enough, which suggests, where ever he is, he does have surface access of some sort - even if his wings have rotted to the point where he can no longer fly.

It isn't really an army of necromancers though - not had one of those since Lor Malgoriand (who was kind of a one-man army of necromancers, backed up by orcs, backed up by one [or more] gods). But I suppose it wouldn't be beyond their means, and we can come up with some excuse why they want this particular temple.

BTW I heard there is a way for me to get high level offline characters for map testing, or was I told wrong?

Wups... Thought I sent you a set... :\ Sec, I'll send you another.

Wait, you want me to continue developing it? I thought once I submit it that I had to stop tinkering with it.

It needs quite a bit of sprucing up, but it's a good frame work - be a shame to see it go to waste... Though without the sprucing up, I'd have to start looking for creeper models.

 

[Regorty]

It needs quite a bit of sprucing up, but it's a good frame work - be a shame to see it go to waste... Though without the sprucing up, I'd have to start looking for creeper models.

Wait do you want me to go through and make the rooms less boxy too?! That would take... several months more! Plus I still gotta do lighting and monster place holders and all that other good stuff.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

It's also a shame that you seem to have no plans to do anything with that mine map.

As with all of the underworld entries, I have plans for it.

 

[Regorty]

It's also a shame that you seem to have no plans to do anything with that mine map.

As with all of the underworld entries, I have plans for it.

Yay! I don't have to mess with my depressing map!

 

[Thothie]

*sigh* Like much of the underworld, I fear that it'll never see the light of day - appropriately enough.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

I'd like to point out that the only thing holding us back from releasing a handful of underworld maps (3+) right this second is a lack of scripts.

 

[Thothie]

Well, pass the RMF's, BSP's, and materials over, and I'll prioritize it then. Otherwise, you'll have to wait in line for the maps I already have in hand (not that I haven't already violated policy, and taken a lot of time away from said maps, performing the occasional script magic for ye).

Though I really should prioritize Cal's map, seeing as how he won the mapping contest... So he's next in line after Cyax, I suppose... But I need to get ahold of him to figure exactly what he wants to do, as it isn't real obvious from the layout.