2014 ANNOUNCEMENT
- Thread starter BoX
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I suppose this would be a bad time to mention that Orochi already passed the project on to Red Cell?
...and you're not on the Source Developers team?
Given Red Cell's propensity to actually be around, and constant determination to do *something* for the mod, having successfully arranged and lead at least a few community wide events, I'd be inclined to keep him in that leadership position myself, were I in your shoes. But if you want to join them in their efforts, they'd be eager to have you, I'm sure.
With the near shambles the current team is in, efforts seem to be currently leaning towards throwing as much weight behind the MS:Unity project that the remains of the team can muster, and it seems at least one or two of the remaining members have at least some experience with the engine.
...and you're not on the Source Developers team?
Given Red Cell's propensity to actually be around, and constant determination to do *something* for the mod, having successfully arranged and lead at least a few community wide events, I'd be inclined to keep him in that leadership position myself, were I in your shoes. But if you want to join them in their efforts, they'd be eager to have you, I'm sure.
With the near shambles the current team is in, efforts seem to be currently leaning towards throwing as much weight behind the MS:Unity project that the remains of the team can muster, and it seems at least one or two of the remaining members have at least some experience with the engine.
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Agreed. Red Cell has proven himself to be the only choice for the position.
Monika's_BFFEx0256
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Yeah this guy seems one hammer short of a toolbag.
Well this is a little awkward now isn't it?
I have no problem giving the project lead back to its rightful owner, I took over because no one was really willing to do so. But that being said, I really don't know you, and I'm not about to give up the lead to some random person. Get supersoup or someone to vouch for you and give me some info on what you can do for the mod. *fingers crossed* I hope you can code.
We'd be glad to have you aboard and I look forward to your response!
I have no problem giving the project lead back to its rightful owner, I took over because no one was really willing to do so. But that being said, I really don't know you, and I'm not about to give up the lead to some random person. Get supersoup or someone to vouch for you and give me some info on what you can do for the mod. *fingers crossed* I hope you can code.
We'd be glad to have you aboard and I look forward to your response!
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So you decided to come back to work again on the project right on the exact moment someone else decided to make to pick it up
WHAT ARE THE ODDS!?
WHAT ARE THE ODDS!?
Monika's_BFFEx0256
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You seem like a condescending holier-than-thou prick. I bet you're a wonderfully amazing person, because you go to church and pray to your false deity. You're afraid to take responsibility for your own actions, using inconsequential information because your pride faltered for a second, isn't that a deadly sin?BoX said:
You're 40 years old and still acting like an over confident teenager, you come out of nowhere and expect to be handed leadership to something you abandoned. You seem to have a high opinion of yourself, and less so of others. You are a child.
As much as i dislike Brian myself from other events, you probably got no proof of what you are claiming here. And i do have a feeling you are being butthurt over things from the past.
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I remember you. I think you might even be on my STEAM friends list.
Let's not alienate this guy and cross our fingers that he actually codes something for MSS.
Let's not alienate this guy and cross our fingers that he actually codes something for MSS.
Do whatever you want BoX, I'm not in charge anymore. Go ahead and make your version of it, however you like it. Not that I could really stop anyone who tried anyway. Whether it will be accepted by the community at large is another story entirely; it looks like there is some resistance to your attempt to "retake utter control" of this modification.
However, do not think for a second that I will take what you said about me lying down. What you said is flat-out lies in parts and arrogant in its entirety. Indeed, I've also asked Supersoup to come here and voice his opinion as well. You stabbed me in the back all those years ago when Brian was in charge; you took something I said out of context and made it look like I was trying to usurp Brian, and almost got me booted out of the MS:S boards until I showed Brian the full conversation. After that you disappeared into the mists. When Brian bailed he left pretty quickly and left a leadership vacuum. Supersoup took leadership after that; you never "gave" him anything. After a number years of no progress, left to pursue his own projects.
The one time you came back after several years during Supersoup's tenure, you announced your intent to get back to work on the mod. The one time I was able to meet with you in a test build of the game, we talked for all of 5 minutes before you left, and promptly disappeared again. During the entire time I knew you, not once did you voice any concerns to me or the rest of the community. I didn't see you stepping in to take up leadership from me at any point in all the years since I assumed the role, in spite of "REAL LIFE" obligations.
I'm not even sure what to say about these posts, other than given your presumptuousness and arrogance you're clearly not fit to lead a conga line much less a mod. Being a shitty leader is part of why I finally stepped down. It takes a certain kind of person to realize when you're just not working in the role; I was a terrible leader, and I shouldn't have let it get as bad as I did. But I daresay you won't be any better.
However, do not think for a second that I will take what you said about me lying down. What you said is flat-out lies in parts and arrogant in its entirety. Indeed, I've also asked Supersoup to come here and voice his opinion as well. You stabbed me in the back all those years ago when Brian was in charge; you took something I said out of context and made it look like I was trying to usurp Brian, and almost got me booted out of the MS:S boards until I showed Brian the full conversation. After that you disappeared into the mists. When Brian bailed he left pretty quickly and left a leadership vacuum. Supersoup took leadership after that; you never "gave" him anything. After a number years of no progress, left to pursue his own projects.
The one time you came back after several years during Supersoup's tenure, you announced your intent to get back to work on the mod. The one time I was able to meet with you in a test build of the game, we talked for all of 5 minutes before you left, and promptly disappeared again. During the entire time I knew you, not once did you voice any concerns to me or the rest of the community. I didn't see you stepping in to take up leadership from me at any point in all the years since I assumed the role, in spite of "REAL LIFE" obligations.
Citation needed.BoX said:
Delusions of grandeur much? But more to the point, there is no "right of leadership" for you to take; my venture is now in the hands of Red Cell and Thothie, and everyone else has been free to try their hand at it all this time.BoX said:
I'm not even sure what to say about these posts, other than given your presumptuousness and arrogance you're clearly not fit to lead a conga line much less a mod. Being a shitty leader is part of why I finally stepped down. It takes a certain kind of person to realize when you're just not working in the role; I was a terrible leader, and I shouldn't have let it get as bad as I did. But I daresay you won't be any better.
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*sigh* This is why we can't have nice things...
Been holding off saying anything more, as this is the MSS team's problem, as far as I'm concerned, but I suppose I must say something for sake of decorum, if nothing else.
BoX, if you really do want to make it in this industry (which I really recommend against, as the pay is crap, you're easily outsourced, and nearly all the jobs are temporary), you're going to have to work on your social graces and humility. One does not simply walk into Mordor and proclaim yourself God, as all the trolls will be entirely justified when they get up and stomp you.
Despite your claims, your credentials are, well, lacking. You've got 8 posts here in four years, four of which are in this thread - meaning you have less Master Sword credits to your name than anyone else who has posted in this thread. That's not exactly what one would call an active and trusted member of the community. What work you have done has been sporadic at best - you've vanished for years at a time, and, ever so sadly, never managed to really get TF:S off the ground... And I really wish you had, as I stopped backing Fortress Forever, when the new team came in and decided a faithful port of TFC was no longer their objective (despite all the previous team's pains to make it so).
...and the plan to wait for Source 2 - meaning, awaiting the release of EP3, doesn't seem viable, given no one has a clue when that'll happen, or even if it'll happen, or if it'll be moddable without licensing fees - given everything Valve has done to make life hell for the free mod community.
All that said, if you're willing to work as part of a team, rather than as a self proclaimed leader, I think you could contribute something to the Source project, even if your efforts were as sporadic as they've been in the past. If you really have changed, and they are more consistent, then maybe you could be a critical core member of said team, but that sort of respect is something you've got to earn from a group, not simply lay down and claim by edict.
In other words... Error: There are No Free Edicts
Been holding off saying anything more, as this is the MSS team's problem, as far as I'm concerned, but I suppose I must say something for sake of decorum, if nothing else.
BoX, if you really do want to make it in this industry (which I really recommend against, as the pay is crap, you're easily outsourced, and nearly all the jobs are temporary), you're going to have to work on your social graces and humility. One does not simply walk into Mordor and proclaim yourself God, as all the trolls will be entirely justified when they get up and stomp you.
Despite your claims, your credentials are, well, lacking. You've got 8 posts here in four years, four of which are in this thread - meaning you have less Master Sword credits to your name than anyone else who has posted in this thread. That's not exactly what one would call an active and trusted member of the community. What work you have done has been sporadic at best - you've vanished for years at a time, and, ever so sadly, never managed to really get TF:S off the ground... And I really wish you had, as I stopped backing Fortress Forever, when the new team came in and decided a faithful port of TFC was no longer their objective (despite all the previous team's pains to make it so).
...and the plan to wait for Source 2 - meaning, awaiting the release of EP3, doesn't seem viable, given no one has a clue when that'll happen, or even if it'll happen, or if it'll be moddable without licensing fees - given everything Valve has done to make life hell for the free mod community.
All that said, if you're willing to work as part of a team, rather than as a self proclaimed leader, I think you could contribute something to the Source project, even if your efforts were as sporadic as they've been in the past. If you really have changed, and they are more consistent, then maybe you could be a critical core member of said team, but that sort of respect is something you've got to earn from a group, not simply lay down and claim by edict.
In other words... Error: There are No Free Edicts
Wow I'm a bit late to the party.
To BoX:
Sorry for the long delay, the MS:S team has been discussing your admission to the group. Ultimately, we'd like you to join the team, as your previous work seems very solid and we are in dire need of a coder. However, with your infrequent activity and lack of social grace, I would remain the project lead, until/if you can prove fit to take over the position. That being said, we aren't a dictatorship and we don't have big egos here, we work well as a team and everyone's opinion is valued.
So if you're willing to work with this team and treat everyone with a little respect, we'd like to have you aboard!
On a side note, I noticed your vernacular has changed drastically between the MS forums and your other posts. Any reason for that? More curiosity than anything.
To BoX:
Sorry for the long delay, the MS:S team has been discussing your admission to the group. Ultimately, we'd like you to join the team, as your previous work seems very solid and we are in dire need of a coder. However, with your infrequent activity and lack of social grace, I would remain the project lead, until/if you can prove fit to take over the position. That being said, we aren't a dictatorship and we don't have big egos here, we work well as a team and everyone's opinion is valued.
So if you're willing to work with this team and treat everyone with a little respect, we'd like to have you aboard!
On a side note, I noticed your vernacular has changed drastically between the MS forums and your other posts. Any reason for that? More curiosity than anything.
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I am deeply sorry for anyone I have offended. When I first joined the team, after years of vALVE development, it was because I loved the existing community, and it's potential. When I joined, I quickly learned than Brian's coding style, through internal playtests, was lacking a great deal, and that this great community did not deserve what it had to offer. When he offered me the lead role, I ran with it, and we developed a TREMENDOUS amount of content. I recruited heavily, and progress was overwhelming, so much so that we believed that we could get away with minimal contact with the community(thus, our lack of posts), and provide sufficient surprise by springing a series of major updates on the community, this website being the primary beneficiary of that.
When real life eventually intervened, I had to pass the project along, in spite of newer personnel who did not possess the knowledge I deemed appropriate to fulfill it's needed gusto.
Now, in 2014... Sometimes life has a funny sense of timing, and just when I thought I was ready to lead this project again, I was offered a job in the industry(July 3). Thus, I must say 'nevermind' to this entire post, and wish the project all the best.
P.S. Orochi, no hard feelings.
P.S. Lucifer, you have things twisted, and will likely never amount to anything in the development community.
When real life eventually intervened, I had to pass the project along, in spite of newer personnel who did not possess the knowledge I deemed appropriate to fulfill it's needed gusto.
Now, in 2014... Sometimes life has a funny sense of timing, and just when I thought I was ready to lead this project again, I was offered a job in the industry(July 3). Thus, I must say 'nevermind' to this entire post, and wish the project all the best.
P.S. Orochi, no hard feelings.
P.S. Lucifer, you have things twisted, and will likely never amount to anything in the development community.
Monika's_BFFEx0256
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I have no interest in the "developing industry." I also only said what everyone else pointed out, and did so from observations from your actions. The only thing twisted is your brain :roll:
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Interpersonal issues notwithstanding, I had BoX near and dear for the early duration of my ride as Project Lead, and he was an invaluable wealth of technical information, and the nearest thing to a Producer the Source version of the mod has likely seen. If there was something on my to-do list, he gave it a shot, from textures to coding and level design. His experience will benefit the team, and with apologies to Red Cell, as I don't know you but barely through fleeting brushes on the forums in the past, BoX would have my support as a project lead. From my understanding, he wishes to pursue the mythical Source Engine 2 for his efforts, and predevelopment time for that engine would likely be extensive- starting around now wouldn't be remiss. MS:Unity shouldn't feel threatened, as multiple efforts through this renewed time of predevelopment would allow the engine which "catches" more quickly to have assets and personnel redirected when necessary. My two cents.
Carry on, and play nice.
EDIT:
Carry on, and play nice.
EDIT:
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- #22
This game, Master Sword, has had so much strife over the years, I just wanted to set a few things straight for the good of it's future. First, I am still sorry if I have offended anyone. A few nights of drinking and returning to the past have made me seem way beyond the asshole. Reading my posts here in this topic is a great source of humility and humor( kudos to those who study etymology and see the relation of these words). While my core intentions have been represented well, the manner in shich I presented them have utterly failed.
Orochi, I have no animosity for you now, but your long post does do my experience with video game creation, and that of Goldsource, followed by Source, great disservice.
"I've also asked Supersoup to come here and voice his opinion as well. " - He just did.
"You stabbed me in the back all those years ago when Brian was in charge; you took something I said out of context and made it look like I was trying to usurp Brian, and almost got me booted out of the MS:S boards until I showed Brian the full conversation." - I don't know what you are talking about here, please elaborate.
"After that you disappeared into the mists. When Brian bailed he left pretty quickly and left a leadership vacuum." - I have spent enough time describing my expertise with Source development to accept this. There was no void. I was the most experienced leader MSS has ever had.
"Supersoup took leadership after that; you never "gave" him anything. After a number years of no progress, left to pursue his own projects." - No, I did give Supersoup leadership, he was the best choice when I had to go. He is and always has been, a dear friend.
Regardless of all this, I would be happy to simply be (the) coder for the project. I have explained all this to my new employer, and they like the project. Red Cell, I am at your mercy, no further leadership issue shall originate from me, thanks!
-Boxorz
Orochi, I have no animosity for you now, but your long post does do my experience with video game creation, and that of Goldsource, followed by Source, great disservice.
"I've also asked Supersoup to come here and voice his opinion as well. " - He just did.
"You stabbed me in the back all those years ago when Brian was in charge; you took something I said out of context and made it look like I was trying to usurp Brian, and almost got me booted out of the MS:S boards until I showed Brian the full conversation." - I don't know what you are talking about here, please elaborate.
"After that you disappeared into the mists. When Brian bailed he left pretty quickly and left a leadership vacuum." - I have spent enough time describing my expertise with Source development to accept this. There was no void. I was the most experienced leader MSS has ever had.
"Supersoup took leadership after that; you never "gave" him anything. After a number years of no progress, left to pursue his own projects." - No, I did give Supersoup leadership, he was the best choice when I had to go. He is and always has been, a dear friend.
Regardless of all this, I would be happy to simply be (the) coder for the project. I have explained all this to my new employer, and they like the project. Red Cell, I am at your mercy, no further leadership issue shall originate from me, thanks!
-Boxorz
MasterSword with the casual cup of drama as we know it and the so called "backstabbing" moments.
Anyways, if you really had hopes for this game's future, you wouldn't give up easy on the project just like you did the moment you got a job offer.
Look at Thothie, for example, he is pratically ms:c's slave now, muahaha!
But tbh, if you have hopes of seeing something accomplished, you would never do what you did just now. And that alone can turn people shaky and unwilling to just give in to your words.
Though i do agree with you in one thing, the little we know of MSS's progress, might aswell begin focusing on source 2 whenever it comes out and skip source entirelly. Though we got no clue on how that engine will work towards modding, right? It could be friendly or not. Best way for this would be to catch an early ride of the modding community out there, grab a team that is willing to work on said project, release it to the public and from there create new objectives that could be achieved through both the community's effort and the dev's effort.
This is how ms:c works and it's how i hope it will work out for any sort of remake for this game in the future, with a better restrictions/control system, not simply adding everything created to the game and giving focus to core updates and main lore first, "side content" should be focused last and used to keep the mod going for longer. Which is something ms:c failed to accomplish lately and got completly derailed with side content.
Heck i would even consider making a source 2 remake that actually sells for money as a standalone, would probably be worth it and drive more devs into the game and willing to give up time to the project. Time is money as we know it. Alot of people would be against this, but there are many ways of planning income from a game. Could even make it free to play with xp/gold boosters or reskin packs (cosmetics) only or personal cosmetic item pass (create your own cosmetic item and get it released for yourself and whoever you wish to give it to). It's similiar to a donating system in the end.
Anyways, if you really had hopes for this game's future, you wouldn't give up easy on the project just like you did the moment you got a job offer.
Look at Thothie, for example, he is pratically ms:c's slave now, muahaha!
But tbh, if you have hopes of seeing something accomplished, you would never do what you did just now. And that alone can turn people shaky and unwilling to just give in to your words.
Though i do agree with you in one thing, the little we know of MSS's progress, might aswell begin focusing on source 2 whenever it comes out and skip source entirelly. Though we got no clue on how that engine will work towards modding, right? It could be friendly or not. Best way for this would be to catch an early ride of the modding community out there, grab a team that is willing to work on said project, release it to the public and from there create new objectives that could be achieved through both the community's effort and the dev's effort.
This is how ms:c works and it's how i hope it will work out for any sort of remake for this game in the future, with a better restrictions/control system, not simply adding everything created to the game and giving focus to core updates and main lore first, "side content" should be focused last and used to keep the mod going for longer. Which is something ms:c failed to accomplish lately and got completly derailed with side content.
Heck i would even consider making a source 2 remake that actually sells for money as a standalone, would probably be worth it and drive more devs into the game and willing to give up time to the project. Time is money as we know it. Alot of people would be against this, but there are many ways of planning income from a game. Could even make it free to play with xp/gold boosters or reskin packs (cosmetics) only or personal cosmetic item pass (create your own cosmetic item and get it released for yourself and whoever you wish to give it to). It's similiar to a donating system in the end.
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Zeus don't bite the hand that feeds us. Let's just hope he really does do some coding for the project.
TheOysterHippopotami said:
Que? If you are talking about Thothie, i was just joking. And about BoX i basically just threw my 50 cents and what i think one would do, if they really wanted to go places with the project.
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