A few ideas about magic

[TheOysterHippopotami]

It seems to me that the magic in this game isn't as useful as it could be. I have one complaint about the system and two suggestions. My only problem with the magic system in msc is that you can't really start this game and set out to be a mage. I've always seen spell casting as a secondary skill. My solution to this is not to rework the spell system in any way but to add new mage friendly items to the game like robes and more useful renditions of items like the serpent staff.

I would like to see robes give spells a boost in certain areas in exchange for handicaps in other areas while the item is equipped. A possible example would be some obligatory fire robe which gave an X% increase (maybe 20%?) to fire damage and possibly an X number or % increase to mana but a -50% to all damage from melee weapons. It would also have a very low defense rating. I don't know anything about what it would take to code something like this, but it would be cool to have an item that gave exp for using ice shield and rejuvination/healing circle/glow at the expense of a massive damage and defense penalty. Perhaps some items could give a small exp boost to a certain element as well? It would be cool to see mage friendly helmets in the form of steepled hates and other wizard/priest caps. If it is possible it would be cool to make it a requirement for the user to be wearing magic armor before he can equip any magic accessories like a steepled hat or a theoretical barcelet/ring. Also, the broadness of title of the 'small arms' skill makes me think it would be possible to include magic wand type weapons for magic users and the thought of someday seeing a character running around in MSC in full blown witch gear is exactly what i want to see in this game, personally.

My other suggestion is to rename the spells in the spell menu so that they are broader and allow new types of spells to be introduced into the game. I don't know if this is possible, but perhaps lightning could be renamed into 'wind' or something so that eventually wind spells like a repulsive gust or runeghars tornado thing could be added to our repertoire of spells. It might also be possible to change affliction to earth and fire to arcane, allowing 'dark' spells and earth type spells to be added. It might be cool to emulate the old Wizard Wars sentry plant or bean stalk in some way and add those to what used to be the affliction category.

 

[Hakariaki]

I were thinking something similar, the game sure needs some more mage/magic items. like wizard robe (giving aid to all skills by lets say 5 SC levels? not that makes you be able to use higer lvl skills just buff the affect of the ones you alredy can use.) wizard hat, arcane rings, etc.

And another thing about SC i have thought about is the summons and pet system, it dosent give any xp at all. is it possible to make so you get the xp from what your summons are dealing. 50% of the dmg would be fine but 100% still wouldent be that much actually.
and turn this xp into divination or make a new part of SC like "Summons" where all the summons xp go into,
wizard titels are really hard to obtain in the game since it gives less lvls than other things like mele so wouldent be so wrong to add in another part of SC to gain some extra lvls in sc.

Also i think it's weird that you get more mana from training parry than the actuall spellcasting.
like going from lvl 20 to 21 in SC dosent give you any mana at all but it takes hell allot time to lvl. why not gain mana for all lvls in sc and lower from parry? dosent really make sense to me how you get mana from blocking attacks.

just some ideas to think about

 

[Tentadrilus]

Personally, I'd like to see staves that amplify spells of a certain element, e.g. a Staff of the Sun which would increase the damage and area of effect of all your fire spells by 50%. It could also make way for a SUPERSTAFF that would increase all spell damage by 35%.

 

[Thothie]

In regards to robes and magic weapons, that's been suggested several times.

In regards to SC counting more for Mana, I should point out that's already been done - it used to be that SC didn't count for Mana at all. I suspect this was further incentive to discourage specializing in it.

Pets/Summons that give XP is a bit tricky, since it's so obviously exploitable. I've had thoughts on that. None of them perfect... It'd likely only apply to pet specialists, and would involve alterations to the AI, coupled with a distance requirement, or may haps even some sort of sympathetic damage system. And/or, as with Pets, making some sorts of Summons progress over their life times and more difficult to replace.

My proposed Title system involves nerfing the experience you get from some actions while increasing it for others. Increasing the damage you do with some magics, while reducing the damage from others, or even excluding you entirely from certain schools in exchange for more extreme bonuses in others.

I've always wanted a more action oriented, Diablo'esque magic system - where mana regenerates instantly, and your mana restricts more how quickly you can cast spells, or sustain rapid fire, rather than acting as a passive pool that eventually drains, forcing you to run off and sit or quaff a potion.

Any of these eventualities, however, would involve completely overhauling the magic system and rebalancing - something long over due, but also a lotta work.

Until then, however, magic remains supplemental. Something critical to learn, but not something you can rely upon in and of itself - which is closer to what the original world designers had in mind.

 

[Echo717]

I've heard that well aren't Earth and Air types already in? that would explain how total sc lvl is calculated, *cough* relating to 7s not going to spoil that, and how it shows up in listresist

 

[Hakariaki]

In regards to SC counting more for Mana, I should point out that's already been done - it used to be that SC didn't count for Mana at all. I suspect this was further incentive to discourage specializing in it.

Thank god that it changed but i still think the rate needs to be changed a bit more. in my opinion
training SC and not geting mana for it at all sounds ridiculous

Pets/Summons that give XP is a bit tricky, since it's so obviously exploitable. I've had thoughts on that. None of them perfect... It'd likely only apply to pet specialists, and would involve alterations to the AI, coupled with a distance requirement, or may haps even some sort of sympathetic damage system. And/or, as with Pets, making some sorts of Summons progress over their life times and more difficult to replace.

hmm in with way would it be exploitable?
by afk lvling with summons? NO (summons only last for a sertain time even the skeleton guardian)
noo the pet wolf dosent disapears!!! well if you use him on afklvling at lets say rats, you wont get much xp for it anyways, secoundary going to harder mobs will make the wolf die eventually even a strong trained one.
spamming summons on a map like fangthoth, will still not get up to your main lvl weapon dmg anyways so wont get some imba xp from it.
i cant find another reson for it being exploitable, gotta help me out there

but i do understand that it might be tricky to make and there is other stuff that needs your attention more than makeing this possible

I've heard that well aren't Earth and Air types already in? that would explain how total sc lvl is calculated, *cough* relating to 7s not going to spoil that, and how it shows up in listresist

yea that indeed would explain the slow lvling for sc, maybe in the futher to be added?

 

[Jelly]

I've heard that well aren't Earth and Air types already in? that would explain how total sc lvl is calculated, *cough* relating to 7s not going to spoil that, and how it shows up in listresist

yea that indeed would explain the slow lvling for sc, maybe in the futher to be added?

Actually it's not Earth and Air, but Summoning and Protection. They were removed visually (so they remain in the calculation) because there weren't any proper ways to level them. They remain in the calculation in order for the SC category to not level too fast.

 

[Dejiko]

Actually it's not Earth and Air, but Summoning and Protection. They were removed visually (so they remain in the calculation) because there weren't any proper ways to level them. They remain in the calculation in order for the SC category to level painfully slow.

Fix'd

Though it would be much easier if ice and divination didn't have crap spells for attacking >_> or even if their support spells just gave at least a bit of exp.

 

[Tentadrilus]

Yeah. The only half-decent way of training Divination for a character of my caliber is spending approximately 6.4 billion years in World Walker, blindly red-charging at dead things with a UGA. Kills time like nobody's business.

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

Well, I know there's going to be another div spell. Ice, not so sure. I generally use blizzard on things that hate ice, but I suppose that's hard to come by because a certain armor that makes you immune to & gain MP from fire.

 

[Thothie]

I think the repulse spell was an educational experiment rather than something we were going to add. Can't really let Divination level any faster without nerfing it, or increasing the level requirements of other spells. Hence the need to revamp the entire system. Tis either that, or make it so high level that everything under it will be over and done with (SC 25+), and do so little damage that it doesn't risk causing Healing Circle to grant utter invulnerability to the current high end monsters before the next tiers get in.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Is it possible to just make certain spells not give exp or penalize them so that they only get a fraction of the exp value of the monster?

 

[Jelly]

Yeah, it was kind of an educational experiment, but I'd like to nerf it and get it ingame.

 

[Thothie]

Not that it would resolve the complaint of the self-centered and short sighted, but it is possible to create spells that give no XP, or the spell library would be even more hard locked than it is. I wouldn't like to do it with spells that cause damage, as it is counter-intuitive to the game's usual system (ie. you damage something, you get XP - provided nothing buggers up.)

Reduced XP is not possible under the current code (just reduced damage, which has the same effect), and although it wouldn't be hard to implement, I'd rather have the more lasting solution of a new spell system, one designed with systematic expansion in mind.

 

[Jelly]

What do you have in mind for that new spell system? Ye've been talking about it for quite some time now, and it sounds like it could end up being "da bomb".

 

[Hakariaki]

Yeah. The only half-decent way of training Divination for a character of my caliber is spending approximately 6.4 billion years in World Walker, blindly red-charging at dead things with a UGA. Kills time like nobody's business.

training divination aint that hard, lighting and ice is allot harder.
you just need a UGA, hit rate might be bad but its get better for each div lvl. some maps are really good to use it on, and i wont spoil it here. i got mine up to 30 from 22 with it pretty fast.

 

[Tentadrilus]

I didn't say it was hard. Just time consuming. Really, really, really time consuming.

 

[Hakariaki]

I didn't say it was hard. Just time consuming. Really, really, really time consuming.

lol aint it all time consuming same amount of xp for everything, i would say div is on the faster half of the difrent skills you can train in

 

[Tentadrilus]

Nah, I have a place I like to go which solves that problem.

 

[Thothie]

I didn't say it was hard. Just time consuming. Really, really, really time consuming.

lol aint it all time consuming same amount of xp for everything, i would say div is on the faster half of the difrent skills you can train in

If it isn't horribly time consuming, we're doing something wrong, cuz we damned well meant it to be!

What do you have in mind for that new spell system? Ye've been talking about it for quite some time now, and it sounds like it could end up being "da bomb".

Meh, long story short is just what I've already said... A more action oriented, rapid fire spell system, with a calculated, very smooth leveling system (rather than these huge bursts every time you pick up a new spell), that is chartably designed for perpetual expandability (at least up to level 60). And yes, evening out all the spell catagories, rather than depending on 'horribly time consuming' for one or two schools to counterbalance the others that had a head start, the way everything else in this game works.

What I'd really like, and I believe I've been over this before, is adjustable spells you can customize. eg. A slider for Fire Dart, where you can balance between mana drain and damage, and maybe even AOE - but I'm not sure if we can setup a GUI for that. But I'd certainly prefer it to several dozen spell variants, which is the next most likely alternative.

 

[FER]

but I'm not sure if we can setup a GUI for that

By this you also mean a pop-up menu when pressing certain key?

 

[Thothie]

Well, I figure it's something that could be integrated either into the spell selection, scroll, or the player F11 menu, without need for a new button, but the real tricky bit would be setting up sliders, or some such, to allow making the adjustments easily.

Then you'd have something along the lines of:

Less Drain <===========X============> More Damage

Slide X to desired position.

Ideally, you'd have the option to make a new spell with your desired power level, but more realistically, it'd probably just be setting a preference for the spell that would save with your character until you next chose to adjust it.