MS:S map changing, getting around, and traveling

[Deantwo]

i remember back in the day when i first played MS:C (about 6-7 years ago i guess?) when you got close to a Transition point... a "ding" was heard... and then your character was allowed to enter that map... either by changing to a server that was playing that map... or by calling a map vote... this meant that if you hadn't gotten to a Transition point that lead to that map... you couldn't enter the map...
i most say i really liked this idea... kinda cause it meant you have to travel around... the idea of having a server with each map on playing (and no map changing) would mean that you had to change to a server when you traveling... enabling you to meet other players on your way...

i don't know when it happened... but one day that was removed... and now you can just plainly join any map you wish... this totally ruining the feeling of traveling and the size of the world...

so my question is... how are you guys planning this for MS:S? or haven't you really given it thought yet?

 

[Stoned]

To be honest, I think the votemap system should stay. It's a bitch having to load up a map every time you use a transition point. It sucks even more now since it takes FOREVER for the console to reconnect you to the server.

 

[Deantwo]

To be honest, I think the votemap system should stay. It's a **** having to load up a map every time you use a transition point. It sucks even more now since it takes FOREVER for the console to reconnect you to the server.

i am not talking about changing MS:C... i am talking about... how it'll be in MS:S >_<
if they can make it load faster or whatever in MS:S... then maybe it'd be more interesting to have it... or something a little like that return

 

[zeus9860]

If they were to do that, they best make it more interisting to level up. As in being able to pratically go anywhere and kill things based of your lvl (excluding safe zones).

 

[Deantwo]

If they were to do that, they best make it more interisting to level up. As in being able to pratically go anywhere and kill things based of your lvl (excluding safe zones).

what do you mean?

 

[Thothie]

Problem with being unable to join any server in progress is that it makes it really hard to get folks together. Additionally, you have to travel through a bunch of low level maps to reach the higher level ones, creating mass frustration, especially given how much longer map load times are in Source. If you want to "experience" walking, you always can.

 

[Red Cell]

There needs to be a walking skill in source then. You can level it up by walking. That sounds like loads of fun.

 

[zeus9860]

There needs to be a walking skill in source then. You can level it up by walking. That sounds like loads of fun.

Wasn't there something like this in oblivion? :roll:

what do you mean?

And my point is what Thothie said, basically.

 

[Orochi]

Well, we were working towards making the original system a la MS:C 1.00 work, where you'd have to travel manually. This would work without any crashes, so you would have to walk. As I recall the primary reason for the mapvoting system was to replace the crashing you'd get when using the normal method.

I figured what we'd try and do is make it so that if at least one person got to the map legitimately, then people could spawn there, much like how it works now on gauntlet maps. This would allow for drop-in very similar to Borderlands. In addition, any player will be able to drop into hub towns if a server is started on those maps: edana, helena, deralia, gatecity, etc. We'll probably also include methods to warp between towns while you're in them, allowing you to travel to the town of your choice and zip around the world. You'll be able to reset gauntlet maps and such by re-entering them, as has become standard for things like instances; I'm not brave enough to try implementing a Borderlands-style map caching system.

A bright side is that since maps are much larger in Source we can cram more into a single map. Lag should be much less since we're not using a scripting system as our primary interface; scripting systems are laggy because you have to run through several layers more of abstraction than you would with hardcode. De-lagging the game is one of my top priorities.

 

[DarkWasp]

It got me thinking, what if we managed to get a stable enough system to have a separate dedicated server for every map and a script to switch servers at transitions.


I'm sure I just opened a whole can of near impossibilities, but its the thought that counts right?

 

[Deantwo]

It got me thinking, what if we managed to get a stable enough system to have a separate dedicated server for every map and a script to switch servers at transitions.


I'm sure I just opened a whole can of near impossibilities, but its the thought that counts right?

that was what i had in mind too... but the part about Source having longer load/connection times is a little true...
but yeah i would love this... would kinda make the game more like a MMO where you can meet people randomly ^^;

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

That sounds pretty expensive.

I mean, I like the idea and it sounds like it might be possible, but there would have to be a few instances of every map's server if the game got anywhere near popular, which would cost a lot of money for servers that are decent enough to hold a decent amount of people/be stable.

 

[Thothie]

It got me thinking, what if we managed to get a stable enough system to have a separate dedicated server for every map and a script to switch servers at transitions.

I'm sure I just opened a whole can of near impossibilities, but its the thought that counts right?

There's been a few mods made with this in mind, and none of them survived. It woulda been hard enough when MSC had 11 maps... But now that it has near 70? Gonna get a rack of servers 70 servers in east USA, central USA, west USA, Europe, and Asia to support all those players while providing a reasonable connection? You'd have to do that, since no one would be able to create their own servers.

Neither Source nor the HL1 has a progressive mapping system that would allow seamless transitions from area to area anyways, so really, even if you could do it... What would be the point?

 

[kritzrix22]

Hey If you havent heard of it theres a mod called proyect-Z and it transitions you to another server for the next map and it is still alive.I dont know how alive it is but I know People still play it.Maybe if you do the server transition thing you could ask The devs for it for help with that.

 

[Age]

From last I played it, there's all of ten people average active at any one time, and my ping wasn't the best. Unenjoyable to say the least.

 

[DarkWasp]

What would be the point?

The point would be that Player A could travel to the thornlands to meet up with Player D without taking Player B and C with him.

Also removing the need to be like "Hey join this server" instead it would just be "Hey meet me at the thornlands."


Like I said though, can of impossibilities. However, I make it a point to speak all my crazy ideas anyway.

 

[thesupersoup]

Crazy ideas can be most innovative, and at least are fun to exercise one's brain figuring out how to implement it.

 

[Deantwo]

What would be the point?

The point would be that Player A could travel to the thornlands to meet up with Player D without taking Player B and C with him.

Also removing the need to be like "Hey join this server" instead it would just be "Hey meet me at the thornlands."

Like I said though, can of impossibilities. However, I make it a point to speak all my crazy ideas anyway.

this is what i mean yeah... would make it more MMO like ^^; rather that's good or bad... i don't know ^^;

From last I played it, there's all of ten people average active at any one time, and my ping wasn't the best. Unenjoyable to say the least.

i don't know that mod/game... but what does the ping/lag have to do with the feature? wouldn't that just be your connect to the server?

 

[Age]

There's been a few mods made with this in mind, and none of them survived. It woulda been hard enough when MSC had 11 maps... But now that it has near 70? Gonna get a rack of servers 70 servers in east USA, central USA, west USA, Europe, and Asia to support all those players while providing a reasonable connection? You'd have to do that, since no one would be able to create their own servers.

Proyect-Z is not an American mod, and there's only one string of servers from last I played, and since it's a survival gun based game, ping is very important. There's no way to improve my ping because there's only one string of servers and it'd be fairly expensive for them just to set up another string of servers for another country's ping. And last time I played the mod only had like three or four maps.

PS: I come from a past of games like TFC and Quake 3, I have no problem whining like a little bitch about my ping. ^^

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

ZOMG REG WTF STOP TELEPORTING

Whoops this isn't Natural Selection

 

[Thothie]

Sorry for the necro in advance, kept not getting around to responding to this...

But how about Blood Stones?

The idea behind Blood Stones, would be to have one on each map you intend to be connected to the network - say at the spawn of the first map in any gauntlet, and at least one in each major territorial map. Once a Blood Stone is located, the player can click on it and mark it, allowing him to travel from either a nexus point (such as a major home town), or between any two Blood Stones he's so marked. Presumably these would have a consistent appearance, maybe looking something like the Star Stones from Oblivion, or some other ancient obelisk.

I suppose, if you wanted to make it fancy, you could even have a viewmodel animation where the player slits his palm and wipes some blood on the stone. But of course, you'd need a good animator for that (looks at FER).

This would give you a system, similar to Borderlands New-U stations, where you could travel to any map you've visited before, and imprinted yourself on the Blood Stone. This would save either redundant traveling through low level territory and endless map loads (assuming non-self adjusting maps), or the frustrating march of fighting your way through the entire world, over and over again, just to get to a particular point to do a particular task (assuming the opposite). If you assume the Loreldians scattered the original Blood Stones throughout the world, you've got yourself an excuse for planting them anywhere you please.

If you want to restrict it further, you could require that the Blood Stones be activated in connecting lines - so one could not jump from one area to another without having visited the areas in-between and activated their blood stones.

Either way, much frustration saved, and it might satisfy that tiny minority of the gaming populous that can't seem to imagine they've traveled from one locale to another - as they'd still had to have done so at least once, while still stopping the rest of us from tearing our hair out in frustration after the 20th consecutive source map load.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0255]

That sounds like a great idea actually; reminds me of the Archstones in Demon's Souls.

 

[Deantwo]

reminds me of way-points from Diablo2... and i guess it'd work...

but what problem... how'd you fix the "i am joining this server that is in XF" but the player haven't been to XF before... he just can't join that server then? he's have to join a server that's at a area close to and walk there... and then change to the other server again?
(( just made "XF" up ))

i mean i like the idea... but we also have to think about some of the zones that you can't really walk to... or will you try to make the world more walk-able in MS:S?

one last think about that system your suggesting... well... a way to see what "way-points" you have actived... like a list of places you have been on the main-menu? cause joining a server just to find out you can't spawn in the map cause you haven't been there before will get annoying fast... even more so when there'll be a lot of maps...

 

[Thothie]

Well... Orochi said anyone could join any map in progress - which I think is key to the mod's survival (seeing as how things went, without that functionality, in the early days of MS). So that's not an issue.

Now, joining such a game in progress, and touching the local Blood Stone, would detract from the desired effect of forcing the player to learn how to get to that location, UNLESS, as I suggested in the more restrictive version, you force the Blood Stones lines to connect in order to allow travel between points, so, despite having activated a waypoint well into the map system, the player would still need to travel there, the hard way, at least once, before he could teleport there himself.

I think you'd have to allow teleporting to main towns (or some safety nexus) via any Blood Stone, regardless of connections though - as I could see a low level player getting stranded in a high level area, having joined a high level game, and followed some high level players to a few adjoining maps, activating Blood Stones as he went. Having only access to those Blood Stones, he'd be kinda boned, as he'd have no way of getting home alive without escort. So, yeah, show some mercy and allow teleportation to the starting towns, or some safe area, regardless of the player's Blood Stone connections.

 

[Tigerkev]

as I could see a low level player getting stranded in a high level area, having joined a high level game

There comes something to mind, what about a "level restriction" which kicks in 5 minutes after mapchange or something so that low level players can't join anymore?