Parry and Dodging (In MS:Source)

[The Man In Black]

The two skills that can let even a noob kill monsters. With the way it's working in MS:C, parry is a completely random thing. (Credits to Squirrel) I think that in Source you should have to do the parrying yourself by putting up your weapon to block an attack. Of course, this would need to have something to stop people from just sitting in a corner, afk, and parrying constantly.

Secondly, dodging. I REALLY think that, through jumping or just moving around, you should be able to dodge attacks, rather than now how the monsters can hit you no matter what you do. This would mean that monsters could have a variety of attacks, such as:

Low sword swipe (Jump over)
Spinning with sword (Duck)
Stab (Dodge to side)

 

[The Man In Black]

How the hell did this end up here?

Thothie, move this to Source Chatter?

 

[Netrogor]

Well, while waiting for him to do that MiB... to prevent people from whoring up parry, it could cost stamina/fatigue, same way as jumping & running do. That way, every time you parry you lose stamina; and once you are out/low on stamina it could stop parrying *successfully* and you take hits again

 

[evilsquirrel]

since we aren't waiting to discuss this anymore...

howbout while you parry it first takes from stamina, but the lower your stamina gets the easier it is for monsters to break your parry, thus dealing damage and awarding less parry xp...

 

[The Man In Black]

That would kinda work, but if I'm running away, I'd still be able to turn and block =\

It could involve more than just holding up a sword, I suppose. Like, you actually have to move your weapon into the way of theirs :O

 

[evilsquirrel]

MIB, we're not going to make people get wiimotes to play MS:S ...though it is possible to mod half life 2 to use wiimotes and nunchucks, i'd rather not FORCE people to have them...

 

[Netrogor]

I don't think we need a parry system so advanced so as to measure up against Dark Messiah

A simple hold weapon/shield up & block until your stamina is too low is efficient enough IMO.

 

[evilsquirrel]

/me agrees with net

 

[The Man In Black]

MIB, we're not going to make people get wiimotes to play MS:S ...though it is possible to mod half life 2 to use wiimotes and nunchucks, i'd rather not FORCE people to have them...

Wtf are you talking about? That thing in your right hand is a MOUSE. (Well for you I'm sure it's actually a part of your anatomy, but for the rest of us..)

 

[evilsquirrel]

MIB, we're not going to make people get wiimotes to play MS:S ...though it is possible to mod half life 2 to use wiimotes and nunchucks, i'd rather not FORCE people to have them...

Wtf are you talking about? That thing in your right hand is a MOUSE. (Well for you I'm sure it's actually a part of your anatomy, but for the rest of us..)

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU!?!?!?

i use my left

 

[Thothie]

I can't move this to source, best I can do is send it to chatter.

 

[The Man In Black]

Move it there for now, I'll wait for Lord K

 

[ITS'aME'aMARIO!!!!]

but i love random parry...

"what!? he just tried to hit me? I didn't even notice"

but parrying things while not facing the enemy is funny...

HRM!

manual blocking would make sense, but parrying? to be able to parry on command would be like having maxxed parry skill, bc if you could, you most definetely would...

my idea is when you aren't swinging your weapon to strike an enemy and if you are facing an attacking enemy you get your chances to parry... chances that will increase with higher parry levels

 

[ceriux]

now, who's stupid...

 

[Netrogor]

Perhaps we should have a multi-parry type system then...

One where, based on your parry level & strength, you could parry an attack regardless of looking towards the attacker (i.e.- thirty strength & thirty parry vs. a rat, parry every time without even looking)...

I am still on the idea of holding up a sword/shield/blocking-item and having the stamina setup to parry damage... albeit it could be modified a bit to so as to accommodate squirrel's suggestion about when your stamina gets too low it still parries some, but you start to receive damage in percentages...
(i.e.-10% stamina left, you receive 50% damage & parry the other 50%; to make this so as to be useful, stamina taken per block would have to vary between what's being blocked, like is it the ice lord or a rat; also, even when a super boss is being parried, it'd have to take little stamina so as to be USEFUL)

 

[evilsquirrel]

but i love random parry...

"what!? he just tried to hit me? I didn't even notice"

but parrying things while not facing the enemy is funny...

HRM!

manual blocking would make sense, but parrying? to be able to parry on command would be like having maxxed parry skill, bc if you could, you most definetely would...

my idea is when you aren't swinging your weapon to strike an enemy and if you are facing an attacking enemy you get your chances to parry... chances that will increase with higher parry levels

please...please go look parry up in a dictionary...and no random parry, your parry level can determine how much of the damage is blocked, or how much stamina it takes to parry a given attack

 

[ITS'aME'aMARIO!!!!]

f*ck you, I know what parrying is, and if i looked in the dictionary it most certainly wouldn't mention f*cking parry levels, damage points blocked, or f*cking stamina points required to block an attack.

(looks up in dictionary )

 

[The Man In Black]

It also wouldn't involve having your back turned.

 

[ITS'aME'aMARIO!!!!]

the back turned crap is what currently can happen in msc

 

[evilsquirrel]

the back turned crap is what currently can happen in msc

yes, but parrying isn't just sitting there doing nothing...honestly its not the same as blocking either, i was just calling them the same because they do similar things.

a TRUE parry system would be set up to where when you and your oponent attack at the same time, you have a chance of clashing blades for an instant and diverting thier blow...although it would probably divert your attack aswell.

 

[ITS'aME'aMARIO!!!!]

yeah, but i think to be able to parry on command is a lil much...

swinging and missing, stun chances, shield blocking, etc. is all based on "dice rolls"

I think it would make sense that parrying is based upon chance as well...

active parrying is in pvk2, and I suppose in a lot of action games where your character's skill is a direct reference to the player's skill.

Parrying is something that should be built up like other skills


Ooo! yeah the attacking at the same time would be the TRUE system. But what I'm trying to suggest is that, when your character is not attacking, they would obviously be "attempting" to parry an attack, and when the parry happens or when the player is attacked while they have a weapon out a parrying animation is played.
and to add to that:
IF the parry is successful, you get a fast counter-attack, as well as the opponent losing a "turn" in combat... (so someone doesn't get confused, bc i know someone will, by a "turn" i mean they don't get to attack for a second.)

Blah, and also so people don't misunderstand the counter-attack thing
"ZOMG THEN YOU WON"T HAVE TO CLICK AT ALL! U CULD JUST COUNTER ATACK EVERYTING!"

you click again after the parry for a counter

Maybe i'm just trying to be lazy but I don't want every battle to become some kind of insane clicking button mashing fest of parrying and attacking. I like to let my stats do the work.

 

[evilsquirrel]

hmm...


howbout this...


1) You can block attacks to reduce damage, but it takes stamina and you cant attack while blocking, shields merely block better.
2) When you can see an enemy and are not blocking or attacking your character will TRY to parry (dice roll)
3) Missing (based on dice roll) should be removed. Period.
4) If there is a missing thing, it should be that the enemy dodged the attack, with animations.
5) MSS should go for a believable combat system in which the player needs some skill of thier own (skills vs skillz)

 

[The Man In Black]

Well, that's you. Some of us would like there to be SKILL involved in playing an RPG, not just random chance. That's why I prefer FPSRPGs. It gives ME the ability to dodge, shoot the bow, cast the spell. If I have better accuracy (or in this case, reaction time), I should be able to have an advantage over someone who can just heal while the computer does all the parrying work for them.

On that note, THAT could be how parry is evened. Make it so that it's not something that you hold, but rather something that you have to time correctly.

 

[ITS'aME'aMARIO!!!!]

Well, that's you. Some of us would like there to be SKILL involved in playing an RPG, not just random chance. That's why I prefer FPSRPGs. It gives ME the ability to dodge, shoot the bow, cast the spell. If I have better accuracy (or in this case, reaction time), I should be able to have an advantage over someone who can just heal while the computer does all the parrying work for them.

On that note, THAT could be how parry is evened. Make it so that it's not something that you hold, but rather something that you have to time correctly.

i think you're looking to play an fps minus the rpg or at least an action rpg MiB. I dunno if there is much SKILL involved in playing this game, but there is strategy. And I think (don't nobody shoot me on this) that the point of playing an rpg as opposed to an fps or action game is that your character's stats covers most/all of the places where "skill" is required and the player is left to strategize how those skills are put to use. Also, if you don't play for a few days or a week your characters skill stays the same unlike if you stop playing an action game for a week, you usually don't do as well.

Then again, I see where you are coming from. I would like to be able to do all of the skillwise things myself with a great degree of success. But the higher rates of success can probably also be attained by levelling your character.

And if you wanna test skill and strength against squirrel, we can set up a boxing match... you two bring the gloves, i'll bring the camcorder 8)
(lawl, i just thought of how funny it would be if instead of boxing you guys LARPed.)
"Fireball!" "Immune! Immune! IMMUUUUUUUNE!!!!"

 

[The Man In Black]

I'm not saying that levels should be taken out. I'm merely saying that there should be something more than just having the computer do it all for you. Like you said, this game involves strategy. To me, strategy means that I have to be able to stop the enemy from hitting me while still hitting them.

Let me put it this way. I stab a monster in the arm, he would be able to hit me then because I don't have anything to defend myself (I can't parry or block his attack). So, in the game it really should be sacrificed that attacking stops parrying and vice versa. How does strategy go into that? The best defensive is a good offense. I should be able to decide whether I want to sacrifice a few HPs to hit the enemy, not the computer.