Suggestion: Parry balancing

evilsquirrel

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Why change parry?

I think we've established by now that parry is a broken mechanic - seeing as you become damn near invulnerable around level 60.

So far I've suggested one or two ways to fix this, but none on the scale of this suggestion...I've suggested monsters with attacks that can't be parried, and making magic entirely impossible to parry (I think it is for the most part now)

This suggestion doesn't actually introduce anything new - it just fixes the broken mechanic.

Basic Concept
I suggest that instead of whatever funky system is in place now, we give every monster in the game a "Strength" score, which is on par with thier level range and physical attributes (higher attack speeds - generally lower strength for thier level).

With this "Strength" score, we can have parry initiate a 100 sided dice roll when it activates, for both the player and the monster attacking the player. The player will add thier parry level to the roll, whereas the attacking monster will add thier "Strength" score.

IE:

Orc attacks Adventurer
Orc has a str score of 10
Adventurer has a parry of 8

Adventurer rolls a 100 sided die (automatic, like rolling to hit with your weapon) - it lands as 51, Adventurer adds 8 to his roll to get a total of 59 as his parry roll.
Orc rolls a 100 sided die - it lands as 32, Orc adds 10 to his roll to get a total of 42 as his defense break roll.

So...this is what would show in the combat HUD
____________

The attack is parried! (59/42)
____________

Adding Weapons

Each weapon and shield would also give a bonus to your parry rolls and defense break rolls. For example, an axe would not be a good weapon to parry with, as it is unwieldy and heavy - whereas a sword or a dagger would give a better chance to parry an incoming attack. However, this mechanic can be reversed, aswell...That axe may not be able to stop an incoming attack, but not much can stand in the way of it either - so it would give a bonus to your defense break roll.

Suggested bonuses would be as follows:

Sword - Medium parry, Medium Defense break
Dagger - High parry, Low defense break
Blunt - Low parry, High defense break
Axe - No parry, V. High defense break
Martial arts - V. High parry, No defense break
Spell Casting - No parry, No defense break (should not be needed)
Archery - Low parry, No defense break

What does it mean?

For now, this means that you will not be able to parry difficult creatures nearly as easily as you do now, but smaller and weaker ones will bounce off of you like flies.

And...more importantly, later - Players will not become invulnerable demi-gods at level 60ish parry as they would in the current system.
 

Revenir

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My suggestion for shields are as follows :

Hold and actively using a shield should give you a +X to your parry, where X = the shield your using. Higher level shields require more parry to USE but you can still wear them for block chance and a bit of a parry bonus *See below*. Holding the shield would just act like having a strenght mod for the sake of parry, as in the case of adventure above, Adventure would have a parry of 8 and his cruddy shield would give him a blocking bonus of +5 for a total of 13 rather than just 8 making his roll 64 rather than 59.

Now if Adventurer is holding the shield that gives him a +5 to parry instead of using it to block he only gets a +% of that, in this case lets say 50%. So using his shield off-hand, he gets 2.5 + parry to his chance to parry rather than 5 + parry to his chance to parry.

Having a shield should also have the benifit of being able to "block" an attack fully up to the life of the shield *as we have it now*. This chance should have NOTHING to do with the parry skill but rather the shield itself.

So Adventure above would have a chance of 2.5 + 8 + weapon + d100 to parry while he could have a 5% chance to fully block the blow. This can also be turned around via the above weapon system where depending on your weapon you can totaly blow past armor/shield of the target giving orcs with axes a much easier time hitting players vs. orcs with swords.
 

Evaan

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I like the idea of this.

When balancing the weapons for August, I decided that Swords had a greater parry than the other weapons, because of its lower damage, but as far as I can tell, you barely parry at all, and it certainly isn't the percentage I chose it to be.

I don't think Shields should affect Parry at all. Shields are entirely different, and are meant for deflecting the attrack entirely, or absorbing most of the damage.

This tact was greatly successful during a raid on the Keep I had; I was in the front line, while two players healed me.

I reached 50 hits, and decided to put my shield up and deflect most of the attacks, as the healers weren|t able to keep up with the damage I was taking.

This resultet in me getting back up to full health, capable of dishing out damage again. The two other players flanked my target, and we brought him down in a matter of seconds.

I would say that a Shield should automatically deflect as it does now, meaning you get additional protection using a shield and a parrying weapon.
 

Revenir

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Evaan said:
I like the idea of this.

When balancing the weapons for August, I decided that Swords had a greater parry than the other weapons, because of its lower damage, but as far as I can tell, you barely parry at all, and it certainly isn't the percentage I chose it to be.

I don't think Shields should affect Parry at all. Shields are entirely different, and are meant for deflecting the attrack entirely, or absorbing most of the damage.

This tact was greatly successful during a raid on the Keep I had; I was in the front line, while two players healed me.

I reached 50 hits, and decided to put my shield up and deflect most of the attacks, as the healers weren|t able to keep up with the damage I was taking.

This resultet in me getting back up to full health, capable of dishing out damage again. The two other players flanked my target, and we brought him down in a matter of seconds.

I would say that a Shield should automatically deflect as it does now, meaning you get additional protection using a shield and a parrying weapon.

I disagree. If Squirrels parry system is implemented and shields don't add to parry chance at all, I'll just throw on the highest parry sword *dagger* on my off-hand and continue using my main hand weapon. I'd not only get an even greater chance to parry the attack but now I'm faster AND I have to carry less items with me. Just using the shield to "deflect" the blow wouldn't be enough incentive for me to use it but making it mesh and help out with other weapons and items I'm using would make having the shield be worthwhile.

On the other hand if you were to say, double or even triple the amount of times the shield kicked in then it would be worth using. As it stands now, if my parry actualy ment something I would just throw my pfck on my off hand and bank my shield for space in my inventory.
 

Evaan

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The shield's usefulness would naturally have to balance up with the parry.
 

Blasto121

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I agree with evaan on the shields not adding to parry.

logically it makes no sense. A shield is nothing more than a large piece of metal or wood designed for blocking the attack, the shields weight alone slows your movement down making your parry worse but your block better, even if you gave your self a weapon with good parry your parry shouldn't go up, your not that quick as long as you carry a heavy shield on your arm.

Now if we had bucklers that would be different, a buckler is a shield meant for parry not blocking, its small and round covers barely your arm, but makes for a great deflective type attachment. The buckler makes sense to up your parry because of its lesser weight you have more movement, more movement equals more dodging.
 

Shurik3n

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You don't become invincible at level 60 parry, I don't see where you get that from. You roll 0 to you parry level * weapon % + awareness level. The only sure way to parry all the time is to have a high awareness level, with 60 parry you can still roll a 0, your chances are just slightly better. Also, parry rolls can not exceed 90, so there will always be the chance to get hit.
 

Thothie

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You used to be become invincible around level 60 parry... I put a 90% cap for the base parry, so that's no longer the case. (Tis where that came from.)
 

Revenir

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Thothie said:
You used to be become invincible around level 60 parry... I put a 90% cap for the base parry, so that's no longer the case. (Tis where that came from.)

That doesn't fix the problem just puts a band-aid on it. Perhaps for the September or October patch it could be looked into?
 

Thothie

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Well, it's a bigger fix that ya think, because the total parry could go well over 200 at level 60.

...but yeah, it could be looked into anytime - that we happen to get a new, better system, that's implementable.

I like or shields adding to parry though, I dun think I'd drop that.
 

Revenir

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Thothie said:
Well, it's a bigger fix that ya think, because the total parry could go well over 200 at level 60.

...but yeah, it could be looked into anytime - that we happen to get a new, better system, that's implementable.

I like or shields adding to parry though, I dun think I'd drop that.

I'd assume so, but still a fix is a fix. Just throwing a small patch on it won't make it better :-/.

What would it take for you to look into it this/next month so that you can start figuring out a good way to implement it?

Shwa?
 

Thothie

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I'd assume so, but still a fix is a fix. Just throwing a small patch on it won't make it better :-/.
Haven't you been paying attention? That's all we do around here! :p

What would it take for you to look into it this/next month so that you can start figuring out a good way to implement it?
I've yet to see any agreement on anything to implement, or any idea that really sounds all that much better than the current system. (Foamy's idea, is almost exactally like the current system, I just don't think he realizes it.)
 
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