Swords are fudged up

[FreshMeat]

So I just reached the level in swords where I can throw the swords, and I go to test blood drinker.. WTF 11 damage? Are you kidding me? The dang sword can't even stick to its target and it can't even hurt the target when it does hit!

Okay, blood drinker isn't the best sword. I'll just try unholy blade. WTF THE SWORD SWINGS AROUND THE X AXIS INSTEAD OF THE Y AXIS? OH COME ON!!!! I can't even think of a use for these worthless toys! I see why no one cares about swords!

Can a guy get some decent sword weapons in this biatch?

Also, the unholy blade has 2 charges for me, but the second charge is worse than useless, because if I accidentally go over the first charge bar then not only do I see no extra damage, I'm penalized by having to wait a whole second before I swing again. I can charge the bar 4/5 full and swing, for full damage with no penalty. It simply doesn't make any sense to force a long swing animation with no extra damaged attached to it.

 

[MS:C community]

It wasn't very long ago that just about every medium to high-level player was a swordsman, because swords in this game are just so damn good. With weapons like the hoarfrost shard, dark sword, blood drinker and Felewyn shard, it's just very easy to level swords. The swordsmanship line of weapons might still be the best line of weapons in the game.

That being said, the community has decided that this thread doesn't really make any sense.

 

[FreshMeat]

I'd probably care more about what you posted if you had some data in there instead of just saying "swords are the best". I gave reasons why I feel this way about swords, what reasons do you give? Go take your circular bible thinking somewhere else.

 

[zeus9860]

Swords were the best up to 2010, when ms:c got revived with new content, new level 30 items got added, plus Blood drinker got nerfed countless times, so yeah, swords do suck these days and it's the hardest skill to level right now, after divination.

As for a sword opinion, the best one is hoarfrost, seriously, since i got it i never got rid of it, it's like a drug u can't get rid off so easily. Unholy does good damage but sucks compared to old BD, BD sucks because it got nerfed in order to make unholy look better (they are still on par with each other...) and the new blood blade isn't that good either, unless you get two of them (good luck with that!) :roll:

 

[MS:C community]

I'd probably care more about what you posted if you had some data in there instead of just saying "swords are the best". I gave reasons why I feel this way about swords, what reasons do you give? Go take your circular bible thinking somewhere else.

The community will break it down for you:
1) A while ago pretty much every (semi-)veteran player was a swordsman.
2) That means it was easier to level swordsmanship than, say, axe handling or smallarms.
3) This implies there are decent (!) swords in the game.
4) You should now have enough data to conclude that swords are not as bad as you think they are (tip: get Swordsmanship 35 for a fancy UB special).

Maybe the blood drinker got nerfed, as zeus says. I don't know. I do know, however, that everyone's favorite sword (hoarfrost shard) still appears to be as bad-ass as ever. And even if the blood drinker was made less powerful, it's hard to say that it's not a decent sword anymore (which you, on the other hand, implied in the first post).

Sure, maybe some of the newer weapons from recent patches made other weapon lines easier to level than swordsmanship, but that doesn't mean that there are no decent swords in the game. So to politely answer the main question of your first post:
"Yes, get a dark sword, blood drinker, hoarfrost shard, unholy blade, Felewyn shard and/or that fire blade thing that you can forge in a certain map (forgot the name)."

The MS:C community is always happy to give advice in these dark times!

 

[FreshMeat]

I only use hoarfrost for the area of effect ice effect.

Msc Community,

3) This implies there are decent (!) swords in the game.

This implies that swords WERE decent. Premise is flawed so I can stop here and read no further.

 

[zeus9860]

The MS:C community is always happy to give advice in these dark times!

Lol too much Borderlands 2 i figured! (Respawning lady says something alike)

Edit: And swords do suck imo, compared to other skills, it's like swords were the best in the past that they didn't receive any attention at all for the past few patches, making the skill outdated and unbalanced (compared to other skills, they got newer items, and much more usefull ones that sword's ever gotten so far).

 

[FER]

If anything swords still are the most varied with each sword for each level range, rather than training for 20 levels with a subpar weapon until being able to use a kickass weapon.

2 handed swords were quite useful as not only they dealt decent damage with good accuracy bu also parried attacks, so there was no need to even care about a shield.

I say the deciding factor that got sword so behind lately is the boost axes had gotten lately, but for gods sake its doesnt mean to made axes go back to what they were before but rather, keep balancing them trough the sensible way.

This boost paired with the new command to charge weapons with only one click certainly got the bets of axes over swords, not to mention the latest swords are quite a chore to get for just being a minor to decent improvement over previous swords (shadowfire blade being barely worht the chore of getting tomahawks, and unholy blade being nearly impossible to get as of now with the latest symbol restrictions plus small playerbase which nullifies the symbol trading)

They are not bad, just got behind in the race to balance weapons since people complained there were too much swords.

EDIT:BTW the throw of the blooddrinker has been like that for more than 2 years so you are a bit late for the healing. However BD main use came from its decent damage from normal strikes, coupled with natural parry to prevent damage plus good life leeching. All this together helped players staying alive for a long time.

The same could be said about the skull scythe with has an even worse special attack yet the normal attack are the way to go. Its always like this on msc: either powerful stats and lame gimmicks, or crap stats yet all usefull abilities.

 

[Echo717]

Swords aren't bad. they're just not hands down the best like they once were. UB and BD do good damage, hoarfrost is still badass and although the shadowfire blade is more of a fire spellcasting weapon than a sword weapon it's still awesome (Definitely looks awesome). They're not bad, they're just misunderstood, adopt one today.

 

[Keldorn]

Pre ~32 in all skills, swords are one of the best melee weapon lines.

After that, I can't really say the same, but that's mostly because of power creep.

However, once you do hit 32, Martial arts, Axehandling, Blunt Arms, Small Arms, and Polearms all out-dps swordsmanship, and all of them seem to have better active/passive abilities than swordsmanship.

Post 1000 hp, you'll very rarely see any players using swords, and not just because the top three swords seem to have the unfortunate habit of vanishing from your character.

 

[Thothie]

and I go to test blood drinker.. WTF 11 damage?

In the Blood Drinker's defense - that's, at your level, 11 damage per tenth of a second within 72 units of any and all targets (AOE)... So, unless you tossed it at a rat, it's rarely going to do just 11 damage. It's pretty nasty when tossed at tightly nit groups of targets, given that it's dark damage, goes through walls, you don't have to be anywhere near the target, and it regenerates you in the process. Though it's true, when used against individual humanoid targets, it's not so effective, as it doesn't stay near them long enough to do more than maybe ~50 damage per pass.

This weapon was nerfed twice, once on damage, where it was reduced 15%, and the regeneration rate, where it was reduced 25%, and the tossed end was never nerfed. That's it. This, despite the fact that, at its inception - and for nearly a year after - I got more angry PM's about how overpowered it was than any other weapon. (Seconded only by the Bear Claws).

But yes, for the longest time, swords have dominated this game - it's only just recently that their grasp has begun to weaken... There's still more swords than any other type of weapon, simply because they are so easy to model, and that's one of the reasons why the balancing ramp is smoother in that line than most. Fear not, there are more swords coming, but yeah, until you start hitting the 1000+ range, they shouldn't be failing you as primaries (and even then...)

 

[ArkenMilovat]

Asking for adding extra 3% dmg on BD and UB
Reason: Master Sword game called not Master Blunt, and i see granite or red roof repair tools all around, i want to continue use swords

 

[Keldorn]

In the Blood Drinker's defense - that's, at your level, 11 damage per tenth of a second within 72 units of any and all targets (AOE)... So, unless you tossed it at a rat, it's rarely going to do just 11 damage. It's pretty nasty when tossed at tightly nit groups of targets, given that it's dark damage, goes through walls, you don't have to be anywhere near the target, and it regenerates you in the process. Though it's true, when used against individual humanoid targets, it's not so effective, as it doesn't stay near them long enough to do more than maybe ~50 damage per pass.

Wasn't the Blood Drinker changed to not go through walls anymore?

The throw's always going to be crappy compared to the melee attacks, since monsters move around unless there's someone tanking hits, and if someone is tanking hits, spamming the stab is better since it does more DPS (unless the monster happens to be bigger than the BD's wandering radius, or maybe if you chugged a demon blood) and you don't need the regen that the throw provides.

This weapon was nerfed twice, once on damage, where it was reduced 15%, and the regeneration rate, where it was reduced 25%, and the tossed end was never nerfed. That's it. This, despite the fact that, at its inception - and for nearly a year after - I got more angry PM's about how overpowered it was than any other weapon. (Seconded only by the Bear Claws).

But yes, for the longest time, swords have dominated this game - it's only just recently that their grasp has begun to weaken... There's still more swords than any other type of weapon, simply because they are so easy to model, and that's one of the reasons why the balancing ramp is smoother in that line than most. Fear not, there are more swords coming, but yeah, until you start hitting the 1000+ range, they shouldn't be failing you as primaries (and even then...)

The swordsmanship line does have one of the smoother progression lines, and pre-32 I'd say it surpasses any weapon line in terms of leveling speed except for Blunt Arms which gets two huge leaps in effectiveness at level 20 and at level 22, and Polearms in general which seems to have easier progression in exchange for poor HP growth.

At around my level (which seems oddly common these days), I only see swords used when:

1. An AoE ice DoT is needed.
2. People need friendly Shadahar Orcs.
3. People want to troll others with Unholy Bucket Aura. (I'd totally use this all the time if it didn't troll everyone trying to melee monsters with pushback)
4. People have leveled other weapon lines enough that the sheer exp difference means leveling swordsmanship instead would lead to better HP/time gains, and they are not competing for top spot in listpoints.

This will probably change as level 35 sword(s) are added though, since all we're missing is some pure elemental damage weapons with either a normal "hard hit" attack, or an augmented "hard hit" attack (ala Neckhunter) post level 15-20.

 

[Thothie]

Wasn't the Blood Drinker changed to not go through walls anymore?

Nah... It won't acquire its first target through a wall (never has), but once it's locked onto something, walls, monsterclips, playerclips, hulls, skybrushes, floors, ceilings, batmobiles, it just doesn't give a sh*t.

 

[FreshMeat]

There is absolutely no reason why I'd ever use swords as it stands now. I wanted to point out a few specific things in this thread, but the way I worded it I guess I really asked for it to get side-tracked onto other aspects of swords.

Blood drinker:

Blood drinker throw does 100 damage a second for me on everything it hits in its wide aoe, really good compared to other swords, but I'll never use it because compared to my other choices it's simply not worth it. What I'd like to see changed is a much much longer throw time, with tighter honing on the enemies. The dang thing flies into the floor half the dang time, and with its wide arc it only makes it worse.

Unholy blade:

I'm actually okay with the damage on this, theres only one thing I want to see fixed. The stupid ass rotation! Why is it spinning up-down instead of left-right? It'd have such a greater use if you only changed this one thing.

And the last thing I want to see is the ability to throw a sword, say blood-drinker with the greatly enhanced time, and be able to SWITCH WEAPONS. I know with the way you currently do it, not possible, but I think it should be done somehow.

 

[FER]

I think you are beating on a dead horse as we already said theres better weapons than swords now.

And good luck with using other weapon while the BD is flying, many already lost the weapon countles times and i wouldnt imagine how more would be lost if thothie start playing with that.
Remember this is not an independant game with a development team, it about 3 dudes.

 

[zeus9860]

Swords just need to be updated like polearms, axes and shields have been... (oh and smallarms, kinda because of dual wield).

I would dare say it would be nice for 2 handed swords to "slash" enemies close to each other with 1 swing, like instead of stabbing, actually make it slash sideways, hitting more targets on the way, i believe this is how some axes and swords should be working, not the freaking slash upside down or stab, if we were to stab, we should use daggers or small swords, not two handed swords.

Tbh, every single skill should gets its attention now, some got updated, others remain sh*t. So giving some love to the ones put aside would only help pass some of the frustration away with this game.

Some suggestions:
-Polearms, no needs for updates, good as it is.

-Axe handling, same shit as polearms.

-Bluntarms, more random stuns when hitting? (similiar to MA).

-Smallarms, update this skill with criticals, like, if the player is stabbing an opponent in the back, chances of doing a critical hit are high, opponents face-to-face would have a small chance of receiving a critical. (aka deadly assassination approach)

-Martialarts, perhaps instead of letting the kicks be our only source of stuns, make fists have a small chance of stunning the target for a short time.

-Swordsmanship, as suggested on top, 2 handed blades already have the feature to block (it's nice but honestly it's kinda useless giving how hacky ms:c is, players get stunned/frozen to death), on top of that make charged hits slash sidesways, hitting multiple targets instead of just one. Make 1 handed blades, when dual wielding "stab" the opponent for critical damage, make some sort of similiar approach to daggers (if it's in the back, chances are higher than face-to-face).

-Archery, i'm not sure what to do with this, but perhaps have bows have a defensive skill with right click? Like a knockback similiar to polearms + stun, or right click kicks while using a bow, either way sounds good to me.

-Spellcasting, yeah... the only way i see this one being updated in a good way, is to make dual spellcasting, spells instead of being 2 handed, are 1 handed, so it could provide the players a good array of magic combinations, thus leading to a more suitable magic experience in ms:c, because this skill is as boring as swords right now. (also i believe this was discussed in the past? It does sound good to me.)


I believe the smallarms/1 handed swords skill update could be achieved, if there is someway to make such system based on who's being targetted by the npc, target = no/small bonuses in doing criticals, other people could do it better by approaching in the back of the enemy and stabbing them to hell.

 

[FER]

Actually i think axes should be the ones that can hit multiple enemies normally, and probably be alot slower to compensate.

Blunts as you said, being able to stun randomly on normal hits and also, being able to push enemies backwards with a charged attack, instead of stunning.

Small arms should have dual wield benefits, and maybe some dual wield only moves.

Swords i gues should just have a 3 hit combos like the martial arts in The specialist.

 

[FreshMeat]

Can we stop side-tracking this thread and stay on topic? I posted this thread for specific suggestions, stop throwing it off by mentioning all sorts of other crap.

 

[FER]

Did sand got on your vagina? because your flipping out

 

[Thothie]

Now now... FreshMeat just has a habit of locking on to an argument like a pitbull...



He'll be alright.

 

[FreshMeat]

 

[zeus9860]

Pfft amateur, if you are going to whine, learn with the pro's little one.

Also,

 

[Echo717]

 

[zeus9860]

i lol'd tbh