Crossbows! Water! Bolts! Oh My!

[Supercoke]

I want to see...

normal bows (thornbow, long bow, ect) not able to shoot underwater, making crossbows the only ranged weapon that can fire underwater. This will make players think more about fighting underwater baddies.

ALSO WANT...

A mapper command that lets them control how much drowning damage the player takes.

ALSO ALSO WANT...

Special "Aqua Bolts" that do ALOT more damage when you shoot them in water.

kthxbai

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

The first one, I only see as a counter productive change...
The second one, I think you can actually do, I am not sure, but it sounds easy enough.
The third one, actually sounds pretty cool, however I can only think of like 4 places in this game where that would actually do something... Also, water is not very mapper friendly in my experience, so if you plan on making an underwater map, good luck brave sir.

kthxbai

 

[zeus9860]

w/e

w/e

Probably useless unless someone made an underwater map for those type of bolts, in which case we would likely need an underwater breathing potion aswell. Regen potion would work for 15 minutes but then u would drown...

 

[SilentDeath]

Just putting on a rejuv spell without using any mana would save you from drowning also I think you can rest underwater as well.

 

[zeus9860]

Just putting on a rejuv spell without using any mana would save you from drowning also I think you can rest underwater as well.

yes but you would need to do this every 2/3 minutes or so, which could be a bit annoying... not to mention that swimming isnt as fast as running, and the underwater enemies are usually hax and too damn fast. So healing could be a problem.

There is also the factor if u go afk for a toilet break for example, you might die while taking that break.

 

[miko2386]

Rather than crossbow i am looking forward a bow that shoot more horizontally like the undead archers do and using different arrows like lighting arrows which can have same effects as lighting archer do.

 

[Supercoke]

The thing is...

My friend, Hippo, is making his gauntlet map series with ALOT of underwater areas. I got the crossbow-only-underwater idea from the original Half-Life, where the only weapons worth firing underwater is the Glock 17 and the Crossbow.

From that idea sprang up the Aqua Bolt that would make it somewhat easier to fight when you're swimming around.

AND FROM THAT IDEA, Hippo said he wanted Thothie to increase drowning damage.

AND FROM THAT IDEA, I thought it would just make more sence to let mappers decide the amount of drowning damage.

 

[zeus9860]

As i said, if any of that sh!t happens, i hope there is some sort of gear/item or potion to prevent it from happening. It's a bad idea right now in my opinion, it would piss off players in so many ways i can't even begin to express how bad it would be if someone made a map which you are forced to kill something while being underwater and the drowning damage was for example 5 times higher than usual (default is 5hp if im not mistaking, so that would be 25 hp each time), now imagine this combined with a semi-long trip while being underwater (eg: 30 seconds underwater before you start drowning, 10 seconds to reach the enemy, ~20 seconds to fight it, time to retreat the battle).

I just can't see this suggestion being in anyway reasonable to the player. You are drowning too slow for your taste? So what, this is master sword: continued, where logic isn't well accepted. Look at lava for example, there are places where lava kills you too slow, and there are places where you can swim in lava, and when you are touching lava in this game, u can run and jump around untill death takes your life, which is also stupid in this case. Since when can someone run and jump while touching lava?

This is like asking for a fall damage change, just like in bloodrose, it's probably the only map where fall damage is modified. And what is the point in doing this other than making it look more realistic and annoying?

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

My friend, Hippo, is making his gauntlet map series with ALOT of underwater areas. I got the crossbow-only-underwater idea from the original Half-Life, where the only weapons worth firing underwater is the Glock 17 and the Crossbow.

I must clarify: I want to make a lot of underwater maps. However there are a lot of things I want to make and underwater maps might not be high on the to-do list.

This is like asking for a fall damage change, just like in bloodrose, it's probably the only map where fall damage is modified. And what is the point in doing this other than making it look more realistic and annoying?

I will, without question, increase fall damage in my future maps, as well as increase drowning damage in any maps that have lots of water. This does much more than add a sense of realism. It opens up new doors for creative gameplay. Maybe a mapper would want to hide an optional treasure, or the key to an optional room, a secret transition (the ideas are endless) in an area that will cause players to take massive fall damage. Consider that this area might actually have monsters in it. This allows me to restrict access to certain areas to certain level ranges.
Furthermore, consider my actual idea for how this should be implemented:
If possible, I would have fall damage directly tied to the players weight level. Something like this restricts certain areas to certain play styles. This would be especially useful if a class system were ever implemented. Imagine a scenario like this: The key to a door that leads to a secret map is in an area with a long drop. If a player is wearing armor or is otherwise too weighed down, he will take nasty fall damage. This means a mage or rogue type character can access this area relatively unscathed. However, the monsters that are in this area are especially suited to combating mage or rogue type opponents, and so without a 'heavy hitter' to back them up they are all but doomed. However, if said 'heavy hitter' were to go down by himself he would be severely handicapped by the fall damage and the monsters would make quick work of him as well. Now true teamwork is required if players wish to access the secret area or map.

Anyone who says that this game should have no fall damage or drowning damage is being incredibly short sighted. The less handicaps there are in this game the less variation in gameplay MSC can have. It's this kind of short sighted mentality, this "MAKE THE GAME AS EASY AS POSSIBLE" philosophy that has caused MSC to wind up in the trite position it is in where every high level map is, in the immortal words of Keldorn, "Fake hard" (and therefore annoying and boring). Monsters in new maps are simply the same rehashed enemies we have fought before with higher attack and HP and there is never, ever any variation or creativity in gameplay. There is no breathing room for mappers to do anything innovative because the entire community goes berserk any time a handicap is introduced.

 

[zeus9860]

Words coming from you make alot of differences in this subject. I guess i'm ok with some of the stuff you said, but i'm not entirely supporting this suggestion of yours. As this could lead to both good and bad stuff.

 

[Thothie]

This is the sort of thing I can pull for a specific water map, but lacking that, not much worth the it. But if you *are* going to make a water map, rest assured that most of this can be done, one way or the other.

Shades of when Little-G was begging me to restore the air tank entity.