INFO Bug Reports NOV2015a

[Thothie]

Yes it does.

Damage points never have any effect on your odds of getting an item, they only determine ranks among players, most unique items being reserved for the top two players (and if you're alone they do nadda, save affect gold on a few chests and mobs).

 

[MS:C community]

OK, so damage points never have any effect on your odds of getting an item, but (in the case of artifact chests) they do have effect on whether you're allowed to see the chest contents or not, right? There's some sort of qualifier system in place for artifact chests and if I recall correctly, it's based on damage points.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Damage points never have any effect on your odds of getting an item, they only determine ranks among players, most unique items being reserved for the top two players (and if you're alone they do nadda, save affect gold on a few chests and mobs).

This system is terrible for multiple reasons. There is absolutely no way to get an item if you are playing with anyone higher level than you. Period. I have 1000 hp and if I run half way through this map and someone with 1100 or 1200 hp joins, they earn more damage points than me within minutes. It's ridiculous that the only way to get an item is to 1) play with a group and 2) hope that the highest level players in this group have the good will to give you the item when it spawns, which they generally don't. Nor do they have any interest in helping you get the item once they have earned it themselves. It's a really frustrating system that does the opposite of what you intend; It makes me not want to play with other people on FN. Because why bother? Someone else is getting the loot anyway.

artifact spawns should be based on a players' total damage points, and everyone with a certain amount should have a chance. Players should not be "ranked" against each other in some kind of competition to get an item in a cooperative game.

 

[D.Drew]

artifact spawns should be based on a players' total damage points, and everyone with a certain amount should have a chance. Players should not be "ranked" against each other in some kind of competition to get an item in a cooperative game.

even with 5-7 player runs constantly since the update, there have been maybe 4 unique item drops so far (around 1 unique drop every 10 hours of playtime?), and only one or two people actually get anything from those runs, assuming anything spawns at all. can't expect people to work together when the loot roll system is selfish and has abysmally low drop rates, combined with having to use every potion in the game

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

I agree. Make the items only drop for people who started a quest-line out of gatecity/underkeep maybe?

 

[zeus9860]

We've already been through this before... with the current amount of people playing this mod and the way it works out, things need to be replanned. The xp system in its own was a good addition in terms of rewards towards the small playerbase back when it happened, but forcing said small playerbase to compete against each other for loot, doesn't sound so cooperative in the end, nor does it sound friendly as it ends up creating groups of people that might end up causing hate on each others.

This is what i keep telling people ingame and here, the loot system in this game needs a change, if you keep ignoring this the amount of people playing this mod will keep dropping to the point that making a felewyn blade will be nothing more than just a fairy tale.

If you are going to keep this loot system, at least rework it so its generous towards anyone in the server that is eligible to get new loot. Something like, anyone that qualifies in terms of damage points should have a chance at getting new drops. Like the top 3 players in dmg points having higher chance of getting a drop while 4th to 8th player having an equal chance at getting a drop. I do believe this is how orc_for works, so why not use the same system again? Or better yet, make a new system to get new items.

I would really like to see the forges being used more often in the towns, instead of focusing in handing out loot via chests, which is something old that needs to be discarded(when it comes to new items), why not use chests to contain materials to forge new items?

Or have bounties placed in towns that reward players with xp or items once completed.

The picklocking idea is an improvement but sadly its not being used properly... i just got a feeling it's a cheap way of forcing the player to open chests in other places of a map before doing the final chests. Because y'know, after a few runs in undercliffs, that is my conclusion in the end.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Or better yet, make a new system to get new items.

A questing system could come in handy here...

 

[Borya]

For all the exploiters begging for a rollback and clogging up servers without actually playing:

The amount of damage points you have...

Wait, what? All I've been doing is playing with a friend who I dragged to the game (I made a new alt so we could be comparable in terms of power), and we both got confused when after I explained listpoints to them when he saw ice shield mention it in the hud, we noticed it didn't actually add anything to the total

 

[zeus9860]

Or better yet, make a new system to get new items.

A questing system could come in handy here...

A questing system is good yes but that doesn't mean we have to go that route alone. A variety of options is good, i've grown sick and tired of these new maps already and i've only played for 2 days, last 4 maps added to the game, only 1 of them has new drops and it uses the same old methods with an annoying RNG pit-teleport transport to get to them. What's the point of the other 3 maps if there is nothing to get from there?

I haven't even played the previous patch since it was more of the same, this patch was basically the samething again with minor improvements. The only reason i even played undercliffs was because people questioned me if i was going to play or ignore ms:c again, i decided to give it a try after reading the patch notes and some reviews from some players.

We need more things (reward systems) like the_walls, lodagond4, kfortress, sorc_villa and so on. Reward systems not based in looting chests alone to get your shiny new weapon, reward systems that are different and not repetitive. Reward systems that don't feel like a tedious grind of the samething over and over again, reward systems that are actually balanced for everyone entitled to get nice new loot.

All i see is people running specific maps for xp or certain loot they need. Sounds like alot of fun, really.

I don't want this to be interpreted in the wrong way, people might think i want this game to become easier. I don't fully support the idea, i actually want to see ms:c get some innovations like the picklocking method. Innovations that will actually impact the way the game works right now and will favor balance for the player in the end.

 

[Thothie]

OK, so damage points never have any effect on your odds of getting an item, but (in the case of artifact chests) they do have effect on whether you're allowed to see the chest contents or not, right? There's some sort of qualifier system in place for artifact chests and if I recall correctly, it's based on damage points.

Only relative to other player's damage points. It doesn't matter how many you have, flat, only that you be in the top 75%. So if four players have 1, 200, 300, and 400 damage points, all but the guy with 1 gets a look. If the players have 1, 200, 300, and a hundred thousand, it remains the same. (Granted, as exploiters have discovered, the system does break at some ridiculous point level, like a hundred million, I think.)

So again, never, in all the scripts, outside of gold in a few newer bits, are damage points used in anyway save in ranking of players to one another.

I mean, I couldn't really do it any other way even if I wanted to, especially on a map like Undercliffs, where the monsters are so randomized I have no way to know how many points you might end up with and the chests may spawn at any number of different levels of progression. The point system's just there to filter out ninjas.

This system is terrible for multiple reasons. There is absolutely no way to get an item if you are playing with anyone higher level than you.

Which is exactly the point. You've been here long enough to remember why we stuck this system in, haven't you?

Granted, it only applies to unique items, usually 1 or 2 per map. Random epics and such still go to anyone who hasn't been basically AFK, contributing nothing, or joined at the last second.

Otherwise we get the age old complaint, "I did all the work and late-join Joe Random level 10 gets the artifact! Whah!"

artifact spawns should be based on a players' total damage points, and everyone with a certain amount should have a chance. Players should not be "ranked" against each other in some kind of competition to get an item in a cooperative game.

Well, given that the artifact item goes to one of the top two players, and that we rarely have more than four players, it's not going to make much of a difference if I expand the artifact qualifiers to the top 50% of the players. But maybe it'll make someone feel better.

Drop chances are too low!

Drop chances are higher than they've ever been, and have been, every time someone has whined about this. I think you were playing back when they were usually a 1 in 200 flat chance, so shut your trap.

the_walls, lodagond4, kfortress

All of which reserve their drop/quest items for the player with the highest damage points. In the case of the_wall, it only guarantees lesser quest items. Forsuth reserves his uniques for the highest damage point player, and randomly selects some lesser item quite often, just like any other artifact chest, as he works on the exact same system. He's just a talking artifact chest.

I'd like to change the way you get most items from random to something more consistent (like run map X# times, do x in y place x# times, do z quest for consistent lesser reward) but there's no way to globally apply that at the moment, and in the end, I'd probably introduce something that'd take a lot more effort than the current setup.

The global quest system was to send you off to random maps, preferably starting with those least visited, for a customized reward based on your level (probably one of a set otherwise unobtainable). Dunno when we'll actually get to that though - turning out to be more complicated than I originally envisioned.

 

[zeus9860]

Drop chances are higher than they've ever been, and have been, every time someone has whined about this. I think you were playing back when they were usually a 1 in 200 flat chance, so shut your trap.

That is some grade A BS right there. According to Drew, who has been farming the crap out of this map. He spent about 40 hours to get 4 items with an average player count of 6. I can assume this is true i spent about 4 hours and 30 minutes playing the same map nonstop with 5+ players all the time, no drops happened in that time. The drop rates are either sh*t just like in nashalarath or you did some half assed method to force the item to drop (like the one in orc_for).

All of which reserve their drop/quest items for the player with the highest damage points. In the case of the_wall, it only guarantees lesser quest items. Forsuth reserves his uniques for the highest damage point player, and randomly selects some lesser item quite often, just like any other artifact chest, as he works on the exact same system. He's just a talking artifact chest.

I'd like to change the way you get most items from random to something more consistent (like run map X# times, do x in y place x# times, do z quest for consistent lesser reward) but there's no way to globally apply that at the moment, and in the end, I'd probably introduce something that'd take a lot more effort than the current setup.

The global quest system was to send you off to random maps, preferably starting with those least visited, for a customized reward based on your level (probably one of a set otherwise unobtainable). Dunno when we'll actually get to that though - turning out to be more complicated than I originally envisioned.

The thing with forsuth is that he gives an item 100% the time, so in the end, someone might end up happy by getting a reward they don't have yet. This drop rate is unnefected by the amount of people playing, which is good, this is what i like about the_wall, it's setup to play solo or as a group. I can very well go to that map and play on my own and get rewarded, getting a group to play this mod is a big problem for some of us. I only see people playing this mod on the new maps when it's about 1AM throughout the week. So, do you expect me to play around that time when i see no one playing in my timezone? This right here means alot...

Lodagond works like forsuth, tomahawks drop to highest dmg points player, sure. But it's a guaranteed drop after all. Along with drops that require more than 1 player. Btw, the blood drinker isn't restricted like the tomahawk, i did a run the other day to help some guy, i was in top dmg points and he could still get the sword from the orc.

Kfortress is more of the samething, i can play alone or as a group and get rewarded. Which is all good in the end.

You don't really need to "wait" in order to do new stuff, you have already shown great examples on how you could use new methods to receive new items. Rather than sticking with the same old way which is raiding dungeons and +use spamming the chests. I understand that a questing system requires more time and patience, but you don't have to stick with the same way right now, when there are existing methods that could be reused again for the time being.

Also, i don't understand that one comment of yours talking about alts. If you dislike that much seeing people use alts in order to farm new things, then why don't you make a different approach and balance things rather than trying to "fix" things. People use alts to compensate the lack of player activity, it's not our fault that people who are leagues behind the top players to dislike playing with them. The game is rigged in a bad way, you want us to play with each other and focus on rewarding the ones on the top alone. Like i said, anyone entitled to receive a reward by doing enough dmg points should have a chance at getting an item to drop. If i'm not mistaking orc_for uses this method right now, or at least used to. Anyone with enough dmg points could get the unique drops from the map, it wasn't something restricted to the player in top dmg points. This is how it should always be for new maps.

 

[Thothie]

That is some grade A BS right there. According to Drew, who has been farming the crap out of this map. He spent about 40 hours to get 4 items with an average player count of 6. I can assume this is true i spent about 4 hours and 30 minutes playing the same map nonstop with 5+ players all the time, no drops happened in that time. The drop rates are either sh*t just like in nashalarath or you did some half assed method to force the item to drop (like the one in orc_for).

Undercliff's odds are at least twice as good as Nash (both @nplayers/16, but Undercliffs having 5 chances instead of just one). Granted, figuring out how to spawn all three bosses, without spawning them all at once, that's another thing.

Only difference with the orc_for chests is that they vary with the number of chests you find, in addition to number of players/self adjust tier. At five chests plus they have better odds than either Nash or Undercliffs.

Again, none of the chests care how many damage points you have, only that you have the most, or second most.

The thing with forsuth is that he gives an item 100% the time, so in the end, someone might end up happy by getting a reward they don't have yet. This drop rate is unnefected by the amount of people playing, which is good, this is what i like about the_wall,

The odds of getting a decent item from Forsuth is dependant on the number of players, just like any artifact chest. And much like an artifact chest, you always get something. It's just a chest normally gives something to everyone, while Forsuth only gives his lesser item to the strongest player (though that's why those other minor random chests are scattered about). Plus, a chest's random epic chooses from about fifty items, while Forsuth will give you the same thing, over and over again, so you're much more likely to get something you don't have from a chest.

You can solo for the neck hunter and the blood drinker, with consistent odds, and a few other things, but tis about it. For most items, you get better odds with more players, which as it should be. Simply don't have enough items to give out every unique every time.

Also, i don't understand that one comment of yours talking about alts. If you dislike that much seeing people use alts in order to farm new things

Don't have a problem with alts. Problem is people are clogging up servers with, effectively AFK alts, and defeating the AFK detection in a way that adds to server instability the longer they do it - and, in their ignorance, doing it all for nothing (lest they are really desperate for gold, on their alts). Got too many complaints about it.

 

[zeus9860]

I question myself, why do i even bother after all this time being away... This is just a waste of time in the end. It's like trying to communicate with a wall.

Don't have a problem with alts. Problem is people are clogging up servers with, effectively AFK alts, and defeating the AFK detection in a way that adds to server instability the longer they do it - and, in their ignorance, doing it all for nothing (lest they are really desperate for gold, on their alts). Got too many complaints about it.

Of course, people are clogging up servers because someone was smart enough to make an AFK detect system, if you are fine with alts, then why did you make such a thing in the first place? Sure as hell was a brilliant idea to begin with. Don't set your priorities into just "fixing", try to balance content as much as you can, people will eventually accept a balanced game and won't even bother using things that annoy you or sound too cheap, understand this fact.

Some of the exploits you have to fix every patch are results of your obsession with fixing this game. Fixing is a temporary solution, you are fixing things that actually make players happy at times (sure the gamebreaking stuff needs to go asap). What do you expect in return from your small playerbase? That we just accept it and shut up? That isn't going to happen, not with the current way you deal with things.

Question yourself this, since you made the FN xp bonus system, did you get anyone whining in the forums about xp rates being awful? I highly doubt you did, at least i don't recall seeing anyone talking about it. If anything you got complaints from a few crybabies saying that some maps need a nerf in terms of xp/time which is all acceptable in the end, this is what is called balancing the game.

 

[Thothie]

Of course, people are clogging up servers because someone was smart enough to make an AFK detect system, if you are fine with alts, then why did you make such a thing in the first place? Sure as hell was a brilliant idea to begin with. Don't set your priorities into just "fixing", try to balance content as much as you can, people will eventually accept a balanced game and won't even bother using things that annoy you or sound too cheap, understand this fact.

Because, no matter how balanced a system is (not that MSC is), people will always try to game the system. Cheaters don't care if a game is balanced. The AFK detection system was implemented to discourage people from wasting server resources without actually playing.

MSC will never be perfectly balanced, no game ever has been, but it'd have to be re-written from scratch to even make the attempt, so it's just ongoing tweaking as it has been for the past decade. That has no bearing on whether or not people will attempt to cheat.

Making alternate characters to re-experience the game is as intended. Using them to game the system is not. When folks start doing it in such a way that it hampers people who are actually trying to play, then it's something that has to be dealt with.

Some of the exploits you have to fix every patch are results of your obsession with fixing this game. Fixing is a temporary solution, you are fixing things that actually make players happy at times (sure the gamebreaking stuff needs to go asap). What do you expect in return from your small playerbase? That we just accept it and shut up? That isn't going to happen, not with the current way you deal with things.

Not everyone is going to be happy with every fix. Cheaters, especially, are not going to be happy when their cheats get patched. Such is life. All we can do is hope for some level of utilitarianism.

Question yourself this, since you made the FN xp bonus system, did you get anyone whining in the forums about xp rates being awful?

Yes, I still get a earfuls about how it's all grind and takes far too long to level and get items from tons of people - including you, right now - as well as how they can never hope to catch up to the more powerful players, regardless of how much XP will toss at them. No matter how much we give players, some people will always whine. Again, such is life. An inability to be satisfied is core to the human condition, as is the effort to satisfy.

And the game depends on that fact, as core to every MMO's gameplay, is to keep you perpetually striving towards a new goal, and never fully satisfied, or the game ends.

New stuff's coming, it always is. Some people will hate it, some people will love it, the former will always been the more vocal, but meh, we do what we can within the limits put upon us.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Low drop rates are not the issues here - It's being required to play with others in order to get a good item that is a big issue. Finding people to play with has always been a challenge, and it's getting worse and worse as time goes on. The player base is now so dismally small that the odds of getting an artifact is smaller even if the drop rates are way higher. The drop rates might be higher now, but in the past there were tons of people farming non stop 24/7, so artifact items were actually appearing in those days.

I don't care how insanely low the drop rates are, but some way to play by ourselves is becoming more and more necessary as time goes on. Not many people are playing right now as it is, and when patches aren't brand the player count is near 0 at all times.

 

[zeus9860]

There is no such thing as perfect balance, but a certain amount of balance can be achieved with the right mind set at work. It's the same as if there was a war between 2 nations, would you pick a side based on the drama the society creates or sit it out and stay neutral? The best way to make an understanding point across both sides is being neutral. In this case being neutral is being balanced.

Making alternate characters to re-experience the game is as intended. Using them to game the system is not. When folks start doing it in such a way that it hampers people who are actually trying to play, then it's something that has to be dealt with.

I'm not sure if you have noticed... but as of late i rarelly see people playing and this patch is pretty much new. The very few people i see playing are usually alone or low levels playing in alts or with new friends they brought into the mod. Today i've been sitting most of the time in front of my computer since i had nothing to do. I kept looking for people playing the mod in my timezone, i've only seen 3 players play so far. Even when there enough people playing to make 2 groups, they all decide to go on their own business and play by themselves or with people around their level range, which obviously is something bad for people who are powerhouses.

Not everyone is going to be happy with every fix. Cheaters, especially, are not going to be happy when their cheats get patched.

Cheating is a whole different level when compared to exploiting. Exploiting gives benefit to the player and is usually a flaw in the software made by the developers, it's something that occurs in any game out there. Calling exploiters cheaters is going a little too far, don't you think? If someone is using hacks (their own tools) on FN in order to get advantage, then by all means, you are right by using that term.

I'll gladly exploit when i see fit as long as it isn't game breaking, i'll also gladly stop exploiting entirelly when i see a mutual interest being achieved that benefits those who are still around and playing or even those who are to come in the future.

Yes, I still get a earfuls about how it's all grind and takes far too long to level and get items from tons of people - including you, right now - as well as how they can never hope to catch up to the more powerful players, regardless of how much XP will toss at them. No matter how much we give players, some people will always whine. Again, such is life. An inability to be satisfied is core to the human condition, as is the effort to satisfy.

The grind is still there, i'm not going to lie. I'm not against it since you made the FN multipliers, the heavy burden in grinding was reduced alot, simply playing/enjoying the game will get you there eventually, if you play a few hours a day. But i do support the addition of new methods towards leveling, you once said at some point that the game might have to be dealt with through questing in order to level up. I'm still waiting on something like this, and i know you mentioned it takes time and can't be done from one day to the next. Still i don't recall whining about xp rates since the addition of the bonuses.

 

[zeus9860]

Low drop rates are not the issues here - It's being required to play with others in order to get a good item that is a big issue. Finding people to play with has always been a challenge, and it's getting worse and worse as time goes on. The player base is now so dismally small that the odds of getting an artifact is smaller even if the drop rates are way higher. The drop rates might be higher now, but in the past there were tons of people farming non stop 24/7, so artifact items were actually appearing in those days.

I don't care how insanely low the drop rates are, but some way to play by ourselves is becoming more and more necessary as time goes on. Not many people are playing right now as it is, and when patches aren't brand the player count is near 0 at all times.

Low drop rates are also the issue here, it drives people away eventually. Is it fun to play the same map 40 times to get a specific reward for you? What about the others helping you? Do they also need 40 runs each?

 

[Thothie]

Low drop rates are not the issues here - It's being required to play with others in order to get a good item that is a big issue.

It's not required to play with others to get the items, it just makes it easier.

I don't care how insanely low the drop rates are, but some way to play by ourselves is becoming more and more necessary as time goes on. Not many people are playing right now as it is, and when patches aren't brand the player count is near 0 at all times.

Again, drop rates used to be 1/200, regardless of number of players, then it was 1/50. Now you're looking at 1/16 (x5 chances to boot), and better with more players, and still complaining. Until it's every time, it won't end, and then there won't be much game, and still, folks will find something else to go on about, because, for some strange reason, the game won't simply give them everything when they first spawn.

I'm not sure if you have noticed... but as of late i rarelly see people playing and this patch is pretty much new.

Active players are way up, as with every patch, but fewer and fewer people own HL1, so the average active players is going to head no where but down. Engine be ancient, yo. And the really sad thing is that this is the second most popular third party multiplayer HL1 mod.

I'll gladly exploit when i see fit as long as it isn't game breaking, i'll also gladly stop exploiting entirelly when i see a mutual interest being achieved that benefits those who are still around and playing or even those who are to come in the future.

You'll never be satisfied, you will always exploit, and most of what little game dev time I have will be spent fixing your exploits, so nothing will ever change. Congrats.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

No offense, but I think people use exploits they find to get around silly convoluted systems in this game. Whether it be XP or Loot.... often times this is the case, but there are the few individuals that will abuse and use these exploits to make some already trivial things even more trivial...

Regardless, it will probably continue happening as long as the exploits themselves can exist. Not much can be done about that, so just let the whiners whine. :?

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

It's not required to play with others to get the items, it just makes it easier.

Now I'm confused. I thought earlier you said it was impossible for an item to spawn on undercliffs without at least two people?

Also, despite what you said in this thread, it seems like damage points do influence what potions and other non artifact loot spawns in your chests, not just gold. At least that appears to be the case in undercliffs.

Again, drop rates used to be 1/200, regardless of number of players, then it was 1/50. Now you're looking at 1/16 (x5 chances to boot), and better with more players, and still complaining.

Are you sure it's actually working as intended, then? 1/16 seem like fairly decent odds to me, so it's strange that people can farm all day for multiple days straight and see only a small handful of artifacts show up.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

10 people on server should guarantee a drop for at least 2 people if 3 people have mustaches

 

[zeus9860]

Active players are way up, as with every patch, but fewer and fewer people own HL1, so the average active players is going to head no where but down. Engine be ancient, yo. And the really sad thing is that this is the second most popular third party multiplayer HL1 mod.

Proof? You might be mistaking new players with people potentially using new alts... I've met 1 new player this patch, i've been stalking the servers about every hour or so, if not more. The first few days of the patch had some activity but right now it dropped down rather quick.

You'll never be satisfied, you will always exploit, and most of what little game dev time I have will be spent fixing your exploits, so nothing will ever change. Congrats.

Of course i'm never satisfied in your own mind since that is the image you got from me prior to the xp scaling, i've already mentioned i'm satisfied xp-wise, seems hard to comprehend this. I used to "exploit" mostly xp methods in some maps a few years ago, i stopped caring about that since xp rewards are getting better with each map. If i want to do something and there is nobody wanting to do it, what am i going to do about it? Of course, i'll "exploit" by using alts, at least i can end up doing something in the end.

It's like you have something against people for trying to play this game the way you want it to be played.

 

[D.Drew]

Again, drop rates used to be 1/200, regardless of number of players, then it was 1/50. Now you're looking at 1/16 (x5 chances to boot), and better with more players, and still complaining. Until it's every time, it won't end, and then there won't be much game, and still, folks will find something else to go on about, because, for some strange reason, the game won't simply give them everything when they first spawn.

not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but I've ran that map easily over 100 times since the update and we've found 4 unique items

it just gets very discouraging when you run a very difficult map 20 times in a row and nothing spawns, it makes you wonder if anything drops from there at all, or if you're doing something wrong

 

[Thothie]

It's not required to play with others to get the items, it just makes it easier.

Now I'm confused. I thought earlier you said it was impossible for an item to spawn on undercliffs without at least two people?

Where did I say that?

Also, despite what you said in this thread, it seems like damage points do influence what potions and other non artifact loot spawns in your chests, not just gold. At least that appears to be the case in undercliffs.

Here's the source script, point to me the bit where it gives a shi*t about how many damage points you have, beyond whether or not you're #1 and determining gold:

[various chests/undercliffs_xxx]

#scope server
{
	const CHEST_SELF_ADJ 1
	const BC_SPRITE_IN 1

	setvar BC_ARTIFACTS "<arfifact_item_script>;<arfifact_item_script>;<arfifact_item_script>;<arfifact_item_script>;<arfifact_item_script>;<arfifact_item_script>;<arfifact_item_script>" //swap with newer, if available
	const BC_ARTIFACTS_STRONGEST 1
	const BC_ARTIFACTS_SINGLE 1
	const HAS_ARTIFACT 1

	const BS_DEF_NAME "Prismatic Chest"
	const BS_DEF_NAME_PREFIX a

	const BC_GLOWSHELL 1
	const BC_GLOWSHELL_COLOR (255,255,255)
}

#include chests/base_treasurechest_array

{ treasure_spawn
	setmonsterclip 0
}

{ chest_additems
	local L_GOLD_TO_ADD $get(CHEST_USER,scriptvar,'PLR_TOTAL_DMG')
	multiply L_GOLD_TO_ADD 10
	if ( game.central ) multiply L_GOLD_TO_ADD game.playersnb
	dbg rand_self_adj gold: $int(L_GOLD_TO_ADD)
	callevent add_gold $int(L_GOLD_TO_ADD)
}

{ chest_add_quality_items
	if ( HAS_ARTIFACT )
	{
		local L_NPLAYERS game.playersnb
		if ( $rand(1,16) <= L_NPLAYERS )	callevent add_artifact 100%
	}

	local L_EPIC_ITEM_CHANCE CHEST_AVG_LEVELS
	multiply L_EPIC_ITEM_CHANCE 20
	callevent add_epic_item L_EPIC_ITEM_CHANCE

	addstoreitem STORENAME item_crystal_reloc 1 0
	addstoreitem STORENAME item_crystal_return 1 0
	addstoreitem STORENAME mana_speed 1 0

	if ( $rand(4,10) <= CHEST_AVG_LEVELS ) addstoreitem STORENAME mana_font 1 0
	calleventloop $int(CHEST_AVG_LEVELS) add_items_self_adj
}

{ add_items_self_adj

	dbg add_items_self_adj CHEST_AVG_LEVELS

	if ( CHEST_AVG_LEVELS < 2 )
	{
		callevent add_great_arrows 50%
		callevent add_great_pot 50%
		callevent add_great_item 50%
	}
	if ( CHEST_AVG_LEVELS >= 2 )
	{
		if CHEST_AVG_LEVELS < 3
		callevent add_great_arrows 100%
		callevent add_great_pot 50%
		callevent add_great_item 75%
		callevent add_epic_item 25%
	}
	if ( CHEST_AVG_LEVELS >= 3 )
	{
		if CHEST_AVG_LEVELS < 4
		callevent add_great_arrows 100%
		callevent add_great_pot 50%
		callevent add_great_item 100%
		callevent add_epic_item 50%
		callevent add_epic_arrows 25%
		callevent add_epic_pot 25%
	}
	if ( CHEST_AVG_LEVELS >= 4 )
	{
		if CHEST_AVG_LEVELS < 5
		callevent add_great_arrows 100%
		callevent add_great_pot 75%
		callevent add_great_item 100%
		callevent add_epic_item 50%
		callevent add_epic_arrows 50%
		callevent add_epic_pot 25%
	}
	if ( CHEST_AVG_LEVELS >= 5 )
	{
		callevent add_great_arrows 100%
		callevent add_great_pot 100%
		callevent add_great_item 100%
		callevent add_epic_item 75%
		callevent add_epic_arrows 75%
		callevent add_epic_pot 75%
	}
}

[chests/base_treasurechest_array]

{ add_artifact //[%chance] - select a random artifact from BC_ARTIFACTS token list

	dbg add_artifact PARAM1 - entered

	if !BC_GAVE_ARTIFACT

	if $get_token_amt(BC_FARTIFACTS) >= 1

	if ( PARAM1 startswith 'PARAM' ) local PARAM1 100
	local A_ROLL 100
	local A_RAND $rand(1,100)
	subtract A_ROLL A_RAND
	if A_ROLL < PARAM1

	if ( BC_ARTIFACTS_STRONGEST )
	{
		callevent find_strongest_player_reset
		if ( CHEST_USER isnot BC_STRONGEST_PLAYER ) local EXIT_SUB 1
	}
	if !EXIT_SUB
	

	if ( BC_ARTIFACTS_SINGLE ) setvard BC_GAVE_ARTIFACT 1

	local BC_NARTIFACTS $get_token_amt(BC_FARTIFACTS)
	subtract BC_NARTIFACTS 1
	local BC_RND_ARTIFACT_IDX $rand(0,BC_NARTIFACTS)
	local BC_RND_ARTIFACT $get_token(BC_FARTIFACTS,BC_RND_ARTIFACT_IDX)
	if ( BC_ARTIFACTS_ONE_OF_EACH ) token.del BC_FARTIFACTS BC_RND_ARTIFACT_IDX //only offer 1 of each artifact (BC_ARTIFACTS must be a var)
	if BC_RND_ARTIFACT isnot none
	addstoreitem STORENAME BC_RND_ARTIFACT 1 0
	dbg add_artifact gave BC_RND_ARTIFACT
}

[...]

{ [server] add_noob_pot //PARAM1 = chance% 

	if ( PARAM1 startswith 'PARAM' ) local PARAM1 100

	local ROLL 100
	local A_RAND $rand(1,100)
	subtract ROLL A_RAND
	if ROLL < PARAM1
	local N_ITEMS $get_token_amt(G_NOOB_POTS)
	subtract N_ITEMS 1
	local R_ITEM $rand(0,N_ITEMS)
	local P_ITEM $get_token(G_NOOB_POTS,R_ITEM)
	addstoreitem STORENAME P_ITEM 1 0
	dbg add_noob_pot P_ITEM
}

{ [server] add_good_pot //PARAM1 = chance% 

	if ( PARAM1 startswith 'PARAM' ) local PARAM1 100

	local ROLL 100
	local A_RAND $rand(1,100)
	subtract ROLL A_RAND
	if ROLL < PARAM1
	local N_ITEMS $get_token_amt(G_GOOD_POTS)
	subtract N_ITEMS 1
	local R_ITEM $rand(0,N_ITEMS)
	local P_ITEM $get_token(G_GOOD_POTS,R_ITEM)
	addstoreitem STORENAME P_ITEM 1 0
	dbg add_good_pot P_ITEM
}

{ [server] add_great_pot //PARAM1 = chance% 

	if ( PARAM1 startswith 'PARAM' ) local PARAM1 100

	local ROLL 100
	local A_RAND $rand(1,100)
	subtract ROLL A_RAND
	if ROLL < PARAM1
	local N_ITEMS $get_token_amt(G_GREAT_POTS)
	subtract N_ITEMS 1
	local R_ITEM $rand(0,N_ITEMS)
	local P_ITEM $get_token(G_GREAT_POTS,R_ITEM)
	addstoreitem STORENAME P_ITEM 1 0
	dbg add_great_pot P_ITEM
}

{ [server] add_epic_pot //PARAM1 = chance% 

	if ( PARAM1 startswith 'PARAM' ) local PARAM1 100

	local ROLL 100
	local A_RAND $rand(1,100)
	subtract ROLL A_RAND
	if ROLL < PARAM1
	local N_ITEMS $get_token_amt(G_EPIC_POTS)
	subtract N_ITEMS 1
	local R_ITEM $rand(0,N_ITEMS)
	local P_ITEM $get_token(G_EPIC_POTS,R_ITEM)
	addstoreitem STORENAME P_ITEM 1 0
	dbg add_epic_pot P_ITEM
}

{ [server] add_noob_item //PARAM1 = chance% 

	if ( PARAM1 startswith 'PARAM' ) local PARAM1 100

	local L_ROLL 100
	local A_RAND $rand(1,100)
	subtract L_ROLL A_RAND
	//dbg add_noob_item ROLL vs PARAM1
	if L_ROLL < PARAM1
	local RND_LIST $rand(1,G_NOOB_SETS)
	if ( RND_LIST == 1 ) local ITEM_LIST G_NOOB_ITEMS1
	if ( RND_LIST == 2 ) local ITEM_LIST G_NOOB_ITEMS2
	if ( RND_LIST == 3 ) local ITEM_LIST G_NOOB_ITEMS3
	if ( RND_LIST == 4 ) local ITEM_LIST G_NOOB_ITEMS4
	if ( RND_LIST == 5 ) local ITEM_LIST G_NOOB_ITEMS5
	if ( RND_LIST == 6 ) local ITEM_LIST G_NOOB_ITEMS6
	if ( RND_LIST == 7 ) local ITEM_LIST G_NOOB_ITEMS7
	if ( RND_LIST == 8 ) local ITEM_LIST G_NOOB_ITEMS8
	if ( RND_LIST == 9 ) local ITEM_LIST G_NOOB_ITEMS9
	local N_ITEMS $get_token_amt(ITEM_LIST)
	subtract N_ITEMS 1
	local R_ITEM $rand(0,N_ITEMS)
	local P_ITEM $get_token(ITEM_LIST,R_ITEM)
	//dbg selected P_ITEM of ( RND_LIST ) ITEM_LIST
	addstoreitem STORENAME P_ITEM 1 0
}

{ [server] add_good_item  //PARAM1=chance% PARAM2=hpreq

	if $get(CHEST_USER,maxhp) > PARAM2

	if ( PARAM1 startswith 'PARAM' ) local PARAM1 100

	local L_ROLL 100
	local A_RAND $rand(1,100)
	subtract L_ROLL A_RAND
	//dbg add_good_item ROLL vs PARAM1
	if L_ROLL < PARAM1
	local RND_LIST $rand(1,G_GOOD_SETS)
	if ( RND_LIST == 1 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GOOD_ITEMS1
	if ( RND_LIST == 2 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GOOD_ITEMS2
	if ( RND_LIST == 3 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GOOD_ITEMS3
	if ( RND_LIST == 4 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GOOD_ITEMS4
	if ( RND_LIST == 5 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GOOD_ITEMS5
	if ( RND_LIST == 6 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GOOD_ITEMS6
	if ( RND_LIST == 7 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GOOD_ITEMS7
	if ( RND_LIST == 8 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GOOD_ITEMS8
	if ( RND_LIST == 9 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GOOD_ITEMS9
	local N_ITEMS $get_token_amt(ITEM_LIST)
	subtract N_ITEMS 1
	local R_ITEM $rand(0,N_ITEMS)
	local P_ITEM $get_token(ITEM_LIST,R_ITEM)
	//dbg selected P_ITEM of ( RND_LIST ) ITEM_LIST
	addstoreitem STORENAME P_ITEM 1 0
}

{ [server] add_great_item  //PARAM1=chance% PARAM2=hpreq

	if $get(CHEST_USER,maxhp) > PARAM2

	if ( PARAM1 startswith 'PARAM' ) local PARAM1 100

	local L_ROLL 100
	local A_RAND $rand(1,100)
	subtract L_ROLL A_RAND
	//dbg add_great_item ROLL vs PARAM1
	if L_ROLL < PARAM1
	local RND_LIST $rand(1,G_GREAT_SETS)
	if ( RND_LIST == 1 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GREAT_ITEMS1
	if ( RND_LIST == 2 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GREAT_ITEMS2
	if ( RND_LIST == 3 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GREAT_ITEMS3
	if ( RND_LIST == 4 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GREAT_ITEMS4
	if ( RND_LIST == 5 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GREAT_ITEMS5
	if ( RND_LIST == 6 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GREAT_ITEMS6
	if ( RND_LIST == 7 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GREAT_ITEMS7
	if ( RND_LIST == 8 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GREAT_ITEMS8
	if ( RND_LIST == 9 ) local ITEM_LIST G_GREAT_ITEMS9
	local N_ITEMS $get_token_amt(ITEM_LIST)
	subtract N_ITEMS 1
	local R_ITEM $rand(0,N_ITEMS)
	local P_ITEM $get_token(ITEM_LIST,R_ITEM)
	//dbg selected P_ITEM of ( RND_LIST ) ITEM_LIST
	addstoreitem STORENAME P_ITEM 1 0

}

{ [server] add_epic_item   //PARAM1=chance% PARAM2=hpreq

	dbg add_epic_item ch PARAM1 hp $get(CHEST_USER,maxhp) vs PARAM2

	if $get(CHEST_USER,maxhp) > PARAM2

	if ( PARAM1 startswith 'PARAM' ) local PARAM1 100

	local L_ROLL 100
	local A_RAND $rand(1,100)
	subtract L_ROLL A_RAND
	//dbg add_epic_item ROLL vs PARAM1
	if L_ROLL < PARAM1

	local N_EPICS $g_get_array_amt(G_ARRAY_EPIC)
	subtract N_EPICS 1
	local RND_PICK $rand(0,N_EPICS)
	local RND_ITEM $g_get_array(G_ARRAY_EPIC,RND_PICK)
	dbg add_epic_item RND_ITEM of N_EPICS
	addstoreitem STORENAME RND_ITEM 1 0

	//if ( G_DEVELOPER_MODE ) saytext RND_ITEM

//	old method
//	local RND_LIST $rand(1,G_EPIC_SETS)
//	if ( RND_LIST == 1 ) local ITEM_LIST G_EPIC_ITEMS1
//	if ( RND_LIST == 2 ) local ITEM_LIST G_EPIC_ITEMS2
//	if ( RND_LIST == 3 ) local ITEM_LIST G_EPIC_ITEMS3
//	if ( RND_LIST == 4 ) local ITEM_LIST G_EPIC_ITEMS4
//	if ( RND_LIST == 5 ) local ITEM_LIST G_EPIC_ITEMS5
//	if ( RND_LIST == 6 ) local ITEM_LIST G_EPIC_ITEMS6
//	if ( RND_LIST == 7 ) local ITEM_LIST G_EPIC_ITEMS7
//	if ( RND_LIST == 8 ) local ITEM_LIST G_EPIC_ITEMS8
//	if ( RND_LIST == 9 ) local ITEM_LIST G_EPIC_ITEMS9
//	local N_ITEMS $get_token_amt(ITEM_LIST)
//	subtract N_ITEMS 1
//	local R_ITEM $rand(0,N_ITEMS)
//	local P_ITEM $get_token(ITEM_LIST,R_ITEM)
//	//dbg selected P_ITEM of ( RND_LIST ) ITEM_LIST
//	addstoreitem STORENAME P_ITEM 1 0
}

{ [server] add_noob_arrows //[amt] - Amount must be divisible by 15!

	local ARROW_LIST G_NOOB_ARROWS
	local BUNDLE_SIZE PARAM1
	if ( BUNDLE_SIZE startswith 'PARAM' ) local BUNDLE_SIZE 15
	if ( BUNDLE_SIZE contains % )
	{
		if ( $rand(1,100) > BUNDLE_SIZE )
		{
			exitevent
		}
		else
		{
			local BUNDLE_SIZE 30
		}
	}
	
	local N_ARROW_NAMES $get_token_amt(ARROW_LIST)
	subtract N_ARROW_NAMES 1
	local ARROW_NAME $get_token(ARROW_LIST,$rand(0,N_ARROW_NAMES))
	addstoreitem STORENAME ARROW_NAME BUNDLE_SIZE 0 0 BUNDLE_SIZE

	//dbg add_noob_arrows ARROW_NAME BUNDLE_SIZE
}

{ [server] add_good_arrows //[amt] - Amount must be divisible by 15!
	local ARROW_LIST G_GOOD_ARROWS
	local BUNDLE_SIZE PARAM1
	if ( BUNDLE_SIZE startswith 'PARAM' ) local BUNDLE_SIZE 15
	if ( BUNDLE_SIZE contains % )
	{
		if ( $rand(1,100) > BUNDLE_SIZE )
		{
			exitevent
		}
		else
		{
			local BUNDLE_SIZE 30
		}
	}


	local N_ARROW_NAMES $get_token_amt(ARROW_LIST)
	subtract N_ARROW_NAMES 1
	local ARROW_NAME $get_token(ARROW_LIST,$rand(0,N_ARROW_NAMES))
	if ( ARROW_NAME contains proj_bolt ) local BUNDLE_SIZE 25
	addstoreitem STORENAME ARROW_NAME BUNDLE_SIZE 0 0 BUNDLE_SIZE

	//dbg add_good_arrows ARROW_NAME BUNDLE_SIZE
}

{ [server] add_great_arrows //[amt] - Amount must be divisible by 15!
	local ARROW_LIST G_GREAT_ARROWS
	local BUNDLE_SIZE PARAM1
	if ( BUNDLE_SIZE startswith 'PARAM' ) local BUNDLE_SIZE 15
	if ( BUNDLE_SIZE contains % )
	{
		if ( $rand(1,100) > BUNDLE_SIZE )
		{
			exitevent
		}
		else
		{
			local BUNDLE_SIZE 30
		}
	}


	local N_ARROW_NAMES $get_token_amt(ARROW_LIST)
	subtract N_ARROW_NAMES 1
	local ARROW_NAME $get_token(ARROW_LIST,$rand(0,N_ARROW_NAMES))
	if ( ARROW_NAME contains proj_bolt ) local BUNDLE_SIZE 25
	addstoreitem STORENAME ARROW_NAME BUNDLE_SIZE 0 0 BUNDLE_SIZE

	//dbg add_great_arrows ARROW_NAME BUNDLE_SIZE
}

{ [server] add_epic_arrows //[amt] - Amount must be divisible by 15!
	local ARROW_LIST G_EPIC_ARROWS
	local BUNDLE_SIZE PARAM1
	if ( BUNDLE_SIZE startswith 'PARAM' ) local BUNDLE_SIZE 15
	if ( BUNDLE_SIZE contains % )
	{
		if ( $rand(1,100) > BUNDLE_SIZE )
		{
			exitevent
		}
		else
		{
			local BUNDLE_SIZE 30
		}
	}

	local N_ARROW_NAMES $get_token_amt(ARROW_LIST)
	subtract N_ARROW_NAMES 1
	local ARROW_NAME $get_token(ARROW_LIST,$rand(0,N_ARROW_NAMES))
	if ( ARROW_NAME contains proj_bolt ) local BUNDLE_SIZE 25
	addstoreitem STORENAME ARROW_NAME BUNDLE_SIZE 0 0 BUNDLE_SIZE

	//dbg add_epic_arrows ARROW_NAME BUNDLE_SIZE
}

All the chests on the map are includes of this script with slightly different numbers and artifact lists and random epics plugged in, and a few themed fixed items. Five of them have HAS_ARTIFACT set to 1, and all that have that, have the same odds. CHEST_AVG_LEVELS is the self adjust tier. As you can see in the latter script, add_epic_item/pot/arrows never checks damage points at all, only add_artifact does that, and only to see which player has the most, if flagged to do so.

No where in the scripts does it ever look for a flat damage point number. It's always compared to other players, save in these newer chests, where it also multiplies it to determine gold. Again, I've no way of knowing how many damage points you might have, even on average, without setting up an excel table or something, so I have no way of rigging that up. Even the gold was a shot in the dark. (And probably not a good idea.)

Are you sure it's actually working as intended, then? 1/16 seem like fairly decent odds to me, so it's strange that people can farm all day for multiple days straight and see only a small handful of artifacts show up.

Assuming it takes an hour to complete the map, that's an average 1 artifact every 16 hours, so sounds about right.

We get this complaint every patch - the only reason you even have the opportunity to make the complaint of running the same map over and over again, is because you all already got all the "impossible to get" items from every other map, where the odds are often worse, and have no other goals. As with every unique item, everyone and their cousin will have them within a few months, usually through decimation of a few determined individuals.

It was probably stupid of me to introduce three new unique items at once. Should just stop introducing unique items altogether and stick everything into the random epics list, thus every item will be a "random sh*t item". (Hell, none of the new unique items are all that spectacular, and even the spider axe is really only useful on the same map you find it on.)

Problem with that is, of course, you'll have no reason to go to specific maps, and will just forever raid whatever map has the most random epic items.

not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but I've ran that map easily over 100 times since the update and we've found 4 unique items

Going by the logs, all the servers combined have yet to launch Undercliffs 100 times, and that's including crash/restarts. So unless you're playing off FN...

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

I LIKE THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE