Calruin

[Mak528]

I'm a little disappointed for the map update on Calruin. I'm a long time player for MS/MSC but never played on FN because i used to host a server just for a friend and i. Now i realized we need 3 people to beat the map. Thats not possible now with just us two. We tried having one hit and jump down and lure and instantly have my friend hit the other switch the moment i bring him in middle. Still not fast enough. Do you think you could revert it back to just being able to hit the switch and have it set?

The Horrors were annoying enough...

 

[The Man In Black]

That's the way it's supposed to be working. Glitches != updates.

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

Not to mention it's *cough* broken *cough* right now. Either way, I thought you still only needed 2 people (one to keep him in the middle and the other press the buttons)... Are you on the current patch?

Either way... *cough*

 

[Mak528]

Yeah im on the current patch. It resetted really fast the moment we hit the switch. So we gave up a bit aggrivated though.

 

[Thothie]

Technically you can do it with one, it's just you need something to lure Lord BS to the center of the room to make it real effective - or you just have to lay the beat down on him afterwards.

Granted, you have to be one bad-ass mofo to solo that room.

You don't have to hit the buttons at the same time. Once the first one is tripped, the other two can be hit in either order, regardless of time between. It doesn't matter if they fall back into position meanwhile.

 

[Sabre]

Technically you can do it with one, it's just you need something to lure Lord BS to the center of the room to make it real effective - or you just have to lay the beat down on him afterwards.

Granted, you have to be one bad-ass mofo to solo that room.

You don't have to hit the buttons at the same time. Once the first one is tripped, the other two can be hit in either order, regardless of time between. It doesn't matter if they fall back into position meanwhile.

I'm a bad-ass mofo

 

[Mak528]

I guess it might've glitched. The volcano never appeared no matter how many times we hit both switches.
i'll give it another try later and redownload calruin just incase :]

*I think i need to start getting active on the forums more Even though i dont play on FN.

 

[PBarnum]

All RiPs are bad-ass mofos.

 

[Shadeska]

Wait...what was that?

"Both switches"?

"BOTH switches"?

I'm sorry, there are three switches.

 

[The Man In Black]

As mentioned before, at LEAST once, no one considers the first switch when talking about the volcano switches.

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

Well, I assume by both he's talking about the left and right switch, as they're the ones indicated in his post.

*random comment taking your ability to comprehend into question, which may or may not be condescending*


EDIT: DAMNIT MIB

 

[Mak528]

lol well before i even hit those two.. i would have to hit the first one considering you cant reach the other two until you hit the first switch.

 

[FER]

the first seal is only for raising the platforms, so it only needs to be activated once. Sadly theres a bug that prevent the volcano to appear in the current patch

 

[Mak528]

Oh i see. I guess that explains it.

 

[Thothie]

*sigh* Calruin2 hasn't changed since JUN2007... F*cking MSC.

 

[Shadeska]

I just like conflict

Sorry. I guess I should have been the first to mention the glitch in this patch because...well, I knew!

 

[Thothie]

*sigh* Calruin2 hasn't changed since JUN2007... F*cking MSC.

Grr... Went through the thing... Ran the debug log and all.

The multisource is not firing its target, for some bloody reason.

Nothing's changed on the map since June, and nothing's changed in the code the multisource is in since 2005, and there are no scripts involved in that transaction.

Thus, the only other possibilities are memory leaks or some Steam update "optimization" effed up the way multisource's work.

In other words, I've no idea what the hell is going on with it.

Only thing I could think to do would be to make some other method entirely of achieving the goal, which would mean coming up with a plan, and a map recompile.

I was planning to have a patch release in the next few days by offloading the full release to next year, but if I gotta fix this too... Blarg.

 

[FER]

leave it for new year

 

[The Man In Black]

/me is not a mapper. What exactly does a multisource do, and could it be fixede with an invisible NPC script with only a ripent and not a recompile?

 

[Thothie]

multisource has a couple of different functions - in this case it simply requires that these two buttons be activated before it fires. Unlike a trigger_counter, it can do this repeatedly. It is also often used to lock doors/triggers with the "master" attribute. Basically multisource says "if everything that can target me, does, do this." and the master attribute that various entities have says "if my multisource has been triggered, I can be used".

In actuality, for reasons of functionality, the two buttons in this instance are func_doors triggered by trigger_multiples.

It *might* be possible to switch it over to some sort of scriptname controlled event, similar to the web breaking thing, or the race-specific triggers on helena2. Then it'd just be a ripent job from there. But the map does need a recompile, eventually, to stop the sprite spam. Also the fact that it's suddenly stopped working is scarey, as this is core hl1 map functionality here.

This is the basic structure of the thing with commentary, again, this hasn't changed since JUN2007, so I've no idea why it decides to break this month:

{
"origin" "-1615 1487 -1024"
"target" "combo_on" //fire this when everything that can target me has done so
"targetname" "bchecker" 
"classname" "multisource"
}
{
"model" "*196" //this is the left seal
"movesnd" "5"
"targetname" "b2"
"target" "bchecker" //targets multisource above when activated
"wait" "-1"
"sounds" "0"
"lip" "2"
"speed" "5"
"angles" "0 90 0"
"rendercolor" "0 0 0"
"renderamt" "200"
"rendermode" "5"
"renderfx" "1"
"spawnflags" "32"
"classname" "func_door" //triggered by trigger_multiple below
}
{
"model" "*208" //this is the left seal’s trigger
"master" "ebuttons" //enabled by another multisource that seems to be working fine
"target" "b2"
"wait" "10"
"sounds" "8"
"classname" "trigger_multiple"
}
{
"model" "*198" //right seal (same thing)
"movesnd" "5"
"targetname" "b1"
"target" "bchecker"
"wait" "-1"
"sounds" "0"
"lip" "2"
"speed" "5"
"angles" "0 270 0"
"rendercolor" "0 0 0"
"renderamt" "200"
"rendermode" "5"
"renderfx" "1"
"spawnflags" "32"
"classname" "func_door"
}
{
"model" "*207" //right seal’s trigger (same thing)
"master" "ebuttons" 
"target" "b1"
"wait" "10"
"sounds" "8"
"classname" "trigger_multiple"
}
{
"origin" "-1584 1488 -1024" //multi_manager that is SUPPOSED to be targeted by multisource
"volcano_go" "1" //make volcano
"benabler" "0.1" //lock button triggers
"benabler#1" "30.2" //unlock button triggers in 30.2 seconds
"b1" "30" //reset func_door button1
"b2" "30.1" //reset func_door button2
"targetname" "combo_on"
"classname" "multi_manager"
}

The debuglog gives me this when I hit the last seal:

Firing: (bchecker)

Found: multisource, firing (bchecker)

Multisource bchecker enabled (2 inputs)

So the Multisource IS triggering – but not firing "combo_on" for some bloody reason.

 

[Jelly]

Idea:
So you say that the buttons trigger the multisource and then the multisource unlocks and triggers the multi_manager that triggers the volcano. Is it possible that the multisource triggers the (volcano) multi_manager before it unlocks it (due to steam update and what not)?

 

[Thothie]

Nein, ye cannot lock/unlock multi_managers (unless, again, another undocumented Steam update has come across - I've no idea why they keep patching HL1 beyond hardware compatability.) Only trigger_'s, doors, and buttons have the master attribute.

The multisource that fires (or should fire) "combo_on" doesn't lock or unlock anything, it merely fires (or should fire) "combo_on" when the two triggers that target it are tripped.

The game recognizes that the multisource has been activated, but it does not trigger its target (ie. the multi_manager "combo_on")

 

[Thraxis]

Any chance for the sake of patch that we could just close it off for now and spread the loot from the forge to other places? Then once it's fixed we can just pop it back in another month?

 

[replica]

this could possibly be the same thing that was wrong with my skycastle remake before i was able to release it. the multi_manager wasnt working properly when it was triggered. the solution was to break it up into trigger_relays all with the same name, with the proper delay in time.

 

[Thothie]

We've not done anything to the multi_manager code either. :\ It's true they are limited to 12 targets a piece (16, if none of said targets have delays), but that was taken into account in the design, and has always worked up until this month.

Plus it never fires the event, so it never actually gets to the multi_manager anyways.

I dunno, I was out yesterday, but I wrote up a script to stick on the triggers, and I'll see if it can deal with it later tonight. ATM, must assemble a few systems for Christmas.