Experience Chart available

[Evaan]

We're mere mortals, after all

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

I think a monster exp chart kinda takes fun out of the game - It's like posting item locations. :?

LOL

 

[villager]

I think a monster exp chart kinda takes fun out of the game - It's like posting item locations. :?

LOL

...?!

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

I am just amazed by The Man In Black's comment.

No, no, wait, I totally agree with him.

Atholo gives 800 XP!
Oh fuck now I've ruined the game for everybody.

:roll: :|

 

[Thothie]

I wouldn't want to see a table with just the experience levels, as it'd be only good for PL (although so many other factors affect XP, that it may not even be good for that).

What I would like to see, and indeed am working on, is a detailed list that mappers could use: with height, width, faction, roam value, etc.

The program to do that is already semi-functional (I've not been home a lot, and often out of net range, so it's gotten more attention as of late.)

So far, the program only catalogs weapons:

Public listings like so:

And developer listings like so:

I'm holding off a public release of the weapon list until Evaan submits whatever changes he wants to make to finalize his balances. (And yes, those gp values are totally wrecked.)

 

[tehrilez]

And developer listings like so:

(And yes, those gp values are totally wrecked.)

That gold axe needs a few more zeros.

 

[Thothie]

Like many of the items, ya can't sell it, so it's gold was never defined.

Bothers me that the Dwarven Axe is selling for less than the Battle Axe there though - you can buy both of those, and the Dwarven Axe is by far the superior weapon.

 

[The Man In Black]

I am just amazed by The Man In Black's comment.

No, no, wait, I totally agree with him.

Atholo gives 800 XP!
Oh **** now I've ruined the game for everybody.

:roll: :|

If you tell people what all the experience values are, the location for every item, the contents of every map, the uses, values, and strength of all weapons, the game gets boring fast. It stops being a game where you have to explore and discover things yourself and becomes a game where you read a guide to find out where you should be going next. You do nothing but grind out maps, not because you found them to be the best or fun, but because the sheet of paper tells you what to do. So then the community becomes a mindless bunch of idiots who can't do anything that the guide didn't tell them to do first. (For the noobs, anyway)

Pass.

 

[evilsquirrel]

I am just amazed by The Man In Black's comment.

No, no, wait, I totally agree with him.

Atholo gives 800 XP!
Oh **** now I've ruined the game for everybody.

:roll: :|

If you tell people what all the experience values are, the location for every item, the contents of every map, the uses, values, and strength of all weapons, the game gets boring fast. It stops being a game where you have to explore and discover things yourself and becomes a game where you read a guide to find out where you should be going next. You do nothing but grind out maps, not because you found them to be the best or fun, but because the sheet of paper tells you what to do. So then the community becomes a mindless bunch of idiots who can't do anything that the guide didn't tell them to do first. (For the noobs, anyway)

Pass.

Trogdor! Burninating the countryside.. BURN!

 

[The Man In Black]

What... the hell....

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

If you tell people what all the experience values are, the location for every item, the contents of every map, the uses, values, and strength of all weapons, the game gets boring fast. It stops being a game where you have to explore and discover things yourself and becomes a game where you read a guide to find out where you should be going next. You do nothing but grind out maps, not because you found them to be the best or fun, but because the sheet of paper tells you what to do. So then the community becomes a mindless bunch of idiots who can't do anything that the guide didn't tell them to do first. (For the noobs, anyway)

Pass.

I was only talking about XP values of monsters, not about item locations, nor map contents, nor weapon data.

People deserve to know wether or not they should waste their time on monsters or not. By killing three Kharaztorant Childre, I can get as many XP as I can get if I kill Atholo just once. But doing the former is much, much easier.

.ssaP

 

[The Man In Black]

And how is that different than posting item locations? It's something that an explorer should find out themselves. If Thothie hadn't implemented "XXX Exp gained!", I MIGHT agree with you, but people can figure out if they're wasting their time after the first kill.

 

[Thothie]

By killing three Kharaztorant Childre, I can get as many XP as I can get if I kill Atholo just once. But doing the former is much, much easier.

1.) Bullsh*t. (although the difficulty <-> XP ratio is much kinder, as it always with the little guys)
2.) Kharaztorant Childre don't give you sh*t for items when you kill them, while Atholo gives you pretty much every level 20+ item in the game. (Not that we haven't already established: kill bosses for stuff, minions for XP.)

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

And how is that different than posting item locations? It's something that an explorer should find out themselves. If Thothie hadn't implemented "XXX Exp gained!", I MIGHT agree with you, but people can figure out if they're wasting their time after the first kill.

Well, for one, posting item locations is not allowed (except in the BoU subforum), while posting XP values of monsters is not.
Oh snap

And Thothie: I think I was mistaken; it's four, not three.

 

[The Man In Black]

Not a very good zing, and anyway, I don't really care what the forum rules say. I'm just explaining why I think making a list of a different kind of spoilers is going to help make the game crappy.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

[massive spoiler]Oh hey I just killed a Kharaztorant Childre using a Torkalath blade (and I didn't die, by the way) and it gave me 455 XP. I guess killing two of them already gives me more XP than Atholo is worth.[/massive spoiler]

Edit: I was alone when this happened.

Not a very good zing, and anyway, I don't really care what the forum rules say. I'm just explaining why I think making a list of a different kind of spoilers is going to help make the game crappy.

So if lists of spoilers (which can't be found anywhere in the public boards right now, am I right) are helping make the game crappy, what else is making the game crappy?

...the monster ramping system?

Wait wait wait I get it: shit XP ratios help make this game crappy. And because of these XP ratios, which seem to be broken in every way that's possible, and even in some ways that are practically impossible, people deserve to know on which monsters they should and should not waste their time. That's just my opinion, by the way.

 

[The Man In Black]

What makes the game crappy? I'll just put 2 on the list right now. They're good ideas, but were implemented prematurely. They needed more work and feedback from the community before being released:

1. Level requirements. It's a good idea, but the levels on equipment are horrible at the moment. They really should have been discussed with the community to come up with better numbers.
2. Monster ramping. Definitely something that's needed, but Thothie really needs to stop screwing us out of exp. I don't really care that the ramping just makes them meatbags right now; When I can go to Daragoth and train as fast as, say, Cleicert, something is wrong.

 

[Thothie]

[massive spoiler]Oh hey I just killed a Kharaztorant Childre using a Torkalath blade (and I didn't die, by the way) and it gave me 455 XP. I guess killing two of them already gives me more XP than Atholo is worth.[/massive spoiler]

Edit: I was alone when this happened.

The BASE XP for a Kharaztorant Childre is 150, the BASE XP for Atholo is 800. Atholo has MUCH better armor and resistances than the Kharaztorant, so his base XP will get multiplied even more. So no, you do not get the same XP for killing 2, 3, 4, or even 8 Kharaztorant Childer as you do for killing Atholo – and you know it, as we’ve been over that before.

Monster ramping and level requirements are still being tweaked. Cleicert is the best training map I've ever known with a large group - going from level 26 to 29 in six hours is simply unheard of on any other map.

 

[The Man In Black]

Nah, you can level faster than that on a cheat map!

And I prefer the idea of systems being tweaked and perfected BEFORE they're ingame.

 

[Thothie]

I can go from 0 to 40 in about five seconds on my cheat map, so tis true.

Sadly some systems can only be verified with massive player testing (including and especially the two you are complaining about), which is why yer all beta testers.

I'm so sorry our local gods are so upset that can't become even godlier more quickly, but until the game world expands quite a bit, there's no need raise the level cap. The ratios have always been this cruel, just been keeping the theme - tis that way for a reason.

 

[The Man In Black]

......

So, we've got J-M b*tching about maps becoming too hard, and you complaining that people are becoming too powerful for the maps that we have/that are coming out. Really, how are we ever going to reach endgame if this continues? You're not going to give us experience until we get harder maps, and J-M is going to b*tch at mappers so they don't give them to us.

Oh the logic, it burns...

 

[evilsquirrel]

howbout instead of a "Level Requirement" that says you can't swing a weapon you implement miss ratios that go down a predetermined ammount each level until a specific level for each weapon - such that the weapon only becomes useful at the "required" level.

oh and...by the way, that takes out the game "Breaking" at level 60-ish due to axes having insanely low miss rates...since you would have a predetermined limit as to how accurate a specific weapon can become (you've always got the chance of the orc /dodging/ that giant axe, anyways - if you want to rationalize this)

and since the game doesn't break at level 60, you'd be free to take advantage of the entire level system...give people xp, let them level, games are more fun when you get a sense of accomplishment while you play it.

 

[The Man In Black]

e^(some equation based on level to make it so that the graph jumps to accuracy at the correct leve)?

 

[evilsquirrel]

that would work, though a predetermined level -> accuracy "chart" for each weapon would be the most stable/bug free (one would think/hope)...albeit longer to script...

 

[Thothie]

The game breaks well before 60, if you take into account that you can get to the degree where you can clear any map we have in a matter of minutes, leaving the other players sitting around sucking their thumbs.

As for J-M bitching about hard maps, judging by some of the maps in progress, his protests are being largely ignored, so that shouldn't be a problem. (We do have at least one map he'll love coming up though, as he could finish it in about two minutes without ever losing a single hp.) I'm still with him in that I'd like to see more mid-level maps, but until we get the insane maps, you will not see sane xp. (Bit of an issue since, despite the compltaints of stingy xp, players are leveling faster than they ever have before.)

I don't like the fact that the level requirement stops you from swinging the weapon either, but as we've discussed before, I've no way around that at the moment. I can't adjust weapon stats dynamically due to the weapon registration system.

As for it not having been discussed, Evaan started a poll, and he told you what the level requirements were going to be, and the vast majority of you still voted for it. (You foos)

0, 4, 6, 8 and 10, and a minimum of level 12 on quest weapons (weapons that can't be purchased), alternatively: 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15 on quest weapons (to give it a wider gap, as two levels isn't that much).

I personally think that's a bit cruel. If we must have level requirements, I'd like to see is a ramp of 0,3,6,9,12 for all non-magical weapons (purchasable or not - a Dull PFK shouldn't have a levelreq higher than 6), and keep the pre-Evaan settings for the high end magic weapons.