Galat Note Trading

[HeteroTiger]

Please allow us to purchase Galat Notes in 1k, 10k, or 100k denominations to trade. Not being able to trade money is silly and considering there are some items that are a bit costly but out of range for their level it's strange, such as the Unbreakable Golden Axe.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Being unable to trade money is not silly. If money could be traded everyone with more than 40 hp would have hundreds of thousands of gold. The trading 'system' as it is right now breaks the game enough. The last thing we need is yet another mechanism to break it further.

 

[HeteroTiger]

How so, because people would give it to them?

Developing based on abuse instead of use is a sure way to lead only to abuse.

There are many times that money is actually useful to trade, could it be that some might just give it to newcomers? Maybe.

Is that a bad thing? Perhaps.

Is that a developer problem? No, it is a community problem to be dealt with in the community not by the developers.

Put it like this, do you deny this because some people will trade money, or do you accept it because it allows something that is a basic function that allows people to obtain things they should be able to and work together as a team.

This is a multiplayer game that plays way too much like a singleplayer game. You cannot trade money, share items reliably (unless you have experience in having them NOT disappear), share items without people talking bad. Why is it a multiplayer game then I would say honestly.

In any case, the ability to actually use the money between players is vital, it allows for a market to actually develop and matter, money as it is right now is both nonsensical and useless, you will use it for certain things but where to get is a bit preposterous, the mots you need is 100k for any one thing it seems and you can get 20k/run of islesofdread1 so much like how eXP is orc_for or hunderswamp, so there is no problem there.

That said, is there a problem you see really with people who have 40 HP running around with 100k monies? I mean where do you propose they received said money? From people who helped them? Then those people did work and helped them, what incentive do those people have? Maybe if there was a use for money, a sink of sorts people wouldn't give away the money, same can be said of items. The problem isn't that items are too easy to give or are being given away, the problem is that one you have one copy of an item there is ZERO reason AT ALL to keep a second copy leaving you with three options.
1)Trade it away
2)Give it away
3)Leave it in the chest

These are purposefully in order from best to worst option, 1 means that it's worth something to others and is worth trading, this is great, unfortunately also a problem right now it seems as they can only trade for other items most of which they'll have as they only need one of ANY such item other than potions, and potions aren't valued as much because you get them from mass running the same thing instead of just leveling up.

2 Give it away, this is a fine option but brings nothing to yourself so its' valueless and unfun, I'd rather trade low than just give it away, if the other person could possibly have anything for trade for such a thing it could be a trade instead, but there isn't, so without that step giving it away will be a good option.

3 Leaving it there, this option is the worst it does nothing but remove said item from the overall group of said items it implies oversaturation and lack of care in balance, these are items you will see such as ice blades, dark mauls, thunderaxes, etc that simply are not necessary to trade or even give away as anyone who can use one can easily get one (while getting the best exp even!)

Keeping money from being traded just says "I can't give you something for something" as money is likely even in small amounts the only thing a newer player has of value to trade.

</rant>

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

That said, is there a problem you see really with people who have 40 HP running around with 100k monies?

No, because the system doesn't allow it. People do, however, have high levels farm islesofdread1 for them so they can obtain a UGA before they were actually supposed to. There is already a huge problem with this games economy and allowing players the ability to both A) farm money infinitely and B) trade infinite amounts of money will only exacerbate the problem. Exponentially.

The problem isn't that items are too easy to give or are being given away, the problem is that one you have one copy of an item there is ZERO reason AT ALL to keep a second copy leaving you with three options.
1)Trade it away
2)Give it away
3)Leave it in the chest

There are other options - like forge the item or sell the item or expend the item to start a quest or trade it for 'Guild Points' and let guilds compete to see who can collect the most loot in a season. These are solutions. Suggesting ways to further inflate the game with more items/gold is not a solution.


Your order is mismatched, too.

2 Give it away, this is a fine option but brings nothing to yourself so its' valueless and unfun, I'd rather trade low than just give it away, if the other person could possibly have anything for trade for such a thing it could be a trade instead, but there isn't, so without that step giving it away will be a good option.

This is the absolute worst thing you can do. If you only need to obtain one instance of item X, and item X is the only loot that spawns on map Y then you have just reduced the longevity of the game for the person you gave the item to. He no longer has any reason to play map Y, and not only will he quit playing sooner, but he also didn't give a potentially good map the time of day because all he cares about is MOAR LOOT (because that's how 99% of the player base actually thinks).

 

[Stoned]

I have to agree with Oyster that simply giving gold away is a silly idea. You haven't been playing long enough, HeteroTiger, to see that some (if not most) high level players have a nasty habit of simply giving stuff away to lower level players. I am sure that they would willingly give gold away too. Adding a bunch of generic weapons and items to the MSC markets and in general different and new ways to spend gold would stimulate the economy. And do I have any dissidents when I say why not add the ability to sell items from the player's inventory to other players? IT may not be possible since the developers supposedly can't make any sense of the GUI code though.

 

[zeus9860]

Yeah right, people might end up giving away items, but i doubt people would likely give gold that often to newbies since it has some use right now.
I do give gold sometimes for some newbies, by dropping golden helmets or something like that and force them to sell so they can buy some gear.

Economy is still broken, it did get some use lately but it's still broken as hell. I'm still waiting on reasonable merchants with new stuff that sell outrageously overpriced quest items and go forge me something expensive and worth the gold. Most people with 750hp (if they bother looting gold from chests), they should have about 1M gold at the very least, also depends if they spend it or not, or loose on deaths, etc.

Again, i think a gambling system that uses items and gold to get rewards in return (or nothing at all) would be a nice addon to the economy. Like a fortune wheel for many sections such as:
-weapons
-armor
-ammunition
-potions
-quest items
-spells
-etc

 

[Stoned]

Yeah right, people might end up giving away items, but i doubt people would likely give gold that often to newbies since it has some use right now.
I do give gold sometimes for some newbies, by dropping golden helmets or something like that and force them to sell so they can buy some gear.

If there is at least one item currently a part of MSC that is used primarily for gold, it is the golden helmet.

 

[HeteroTiger]

Again people will only give gold away if they have no use for it, if there is a sink (as I've seen some proposed already) it is not a problem. People will only give it away if they have no use for it, people's problem with twinking here is again a problem of no use for items, as for forging and such, that goes into use for yourself and even then there is use for about 2-3 of an item, some items up to 10 never really more than that.

As for farming islesofdread1, I can do that myself at around 20-25, I could have gotten money easily at 15-20 at orc_for minimum of 1k a run usually 2k was average, runs are 5-10minutes.

Again, 'have them farm' is a problem why? Because someone else is doing the work and transferring it to someone else? Do you see high levels running up to every newb and saying "HEY GUY WANT ME TO FARM YOU MONEY? D", if they are it's only because money serves almost no purpose whatsoever. Even if I wanted everything on the forge list I'd be looking at what, spending 800k? Maybe 1mil? 100k can be made in an hour, I've done it myself and I'm only 25ish.

This problem will not exacerbate the problem at all, unless met with fixing for the use of the other items, as I stated previously there are two ways to develop, for use or for abuse, and attempting to skirt around use only promotes the abuse.

I ask for this trading only because I would prefer it over what I currently do that works fine, buy items that are worth 5k+ and have a friend sell them, it refills the shop and this can be continued indefinitely for about a 500gold loss for 5k transferred.

So basically any reason you are saying that this is 'bad', guess what? It already exists, I'm asking to make it actually mean something.

Again this 'longevity', as for giving a map the time of day, sadly most of them are not made equal, some are just absolutely terrible to have to do (I'm looking at you calruin2) that force you to wait a long time for the next thing on the map to happen and thus are grueling to actually complete. Make use for the excess items, whether it's recollecting them into some sort of generic money, allowing them to actually be sold for money to merchants, whatever it is, give them a use and they wont' be given away, it's that simple. As for quitting sooner, that doesn't have to do with giving stuff away, it has to do with teh way collecting stuff works in the game, again simple problem, simple solution.

I have to agree with Oyster that simply giving gold away is a silly idea. You haven't been playing long enough, HeteroTiger, to see that some (if not most) high level players have a nasty habit of simply giving stuff away to lower level players. I am sure that they would willingly give gold away too. Adding a bunch of generic weapons and items to the MSC markets and in general different and new ways to spend gold would stimulate the economy. And do I have any dissidents when I say why not add the ability to sell items from the player's inventory to other players? IT may not be possible since the developers supposedly can't make any sense of the GUI code though.

I'm well aware of how green I am to the game, and how some players are indeed nice enough to give things away, however I'm also aware of how stupid the conversations of 'twinking' versus ''anti twinking' are on the forums where people are mad at people for giving things away when the real problem is that the items have no purpose past having one, there are many simple systems that could be put into place to give those items past one some actual use, forging as it is now is one, it does give quite the use to some items that might not be too useful otherwise. Selling to NPCs and some actual money sinks might also help, higher level generic weapons/armor, money sinks in pets/otherwise, more maps with 'mercenaries', there are tons of things that could be done, with useful sinks money won't be given away.

Yeah right, people might end up giving away items, but i doubt people would likely give gold that often to newbies since it has some use right now.
I do give gold sometimes for some newbies, by dropping golden helmets or something like that and force them to sell so they can buy some gear.

If there is at least one item currently a part of MSC that is used primarily for gold, it is the golden helmet.

Golden Helmet works great, if people give stuff to newbies to help them out that's their business and attempting to develop around a community problem is asinine and pointless as you will never overcome the problem as it is a community problem, you must look at the overall problem, everything that feeds into it and realize what CAN be fixed from a developer standpoint, which is simple: Overabundance of items and gold, and find a way to fix it that makes sense and preferably also enhances the game and gameplay for all involved.

I know I might be somewhat new to this game, but I've played many many games and have had experience specifically with introducing sinks before and after and how to easily get around transferring of different sorts.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

You are correct when you say that the problem is that the game does not have enough money sinks. The solution should be to request more items to purchase, not request that players themselves be turned into gold sinks.

If it is any consolation, when my maps are released the most expensive "item" to date will be available and, if all goes well, another forge.

 

[HeteroTiger]

You are correct when you say that the problem is that the game does not have enough money sinks. The solution should be to request more items to purchase, not request that players themselves be turned into gold sinks.

If it is any consolation, when my maps are released the most expensive "item" to date will be available and, if all goes well, another forge.

I am not asking for that alone, obviously money sinks is it's problem but as a few have already been proposed I don't believe that I need to reiterate them.

No one is asking for players to turn into gold sinks, as they would not be 'using' the money they are not sinks, this is simply a way to make money useful in trades if it comes along with a gold sink. If a gold sink comes alone it means that money making is solely dread runs or such, this would allow 'money farming' to also mean go run something where you can get a rare item, like phoenix armor, any of the stuff at loda, higher level orc_for, hunder, phobia, etc, giving you a much larger array. It basically says the following:
I don't HAVE to collect money to EARN money, I can collect ITEMS to get MONEY.
It also says:
I don't HAVE to collect items to GET said items, I can collect MONEY to BUY said items.

All you have to do now is give money a purpose and it's complete. One item being expensive is not what I mean by a money sink. Making another item that costs 1million gold or something is not a real sink, it is a one time sink and only if/when the person wants it, a real sink would be something like one use potions that are purchasable for a high price but very useful over time, something like Swift Blade Potions selling for 50k-100k each, that is a MONEY SINK as it is something that now that you know you can get it you want to use every life or as close to it as you can, is extremely useful, but also expensive enough where you will continually use money you have spare to do so.

Another option? Change pets like wolves to be able to pay money to level them up, or create some sort of 'drop off point' to cycle between wolves if you want multiple, and have it cost a lot of money to keep them there, but again this is only a sink to those with wolves.

Higher level training areas where you have to pay to get in. Arena where you pay to do PvM matches and then can win 'points' or items that are hard to get elsewhere, make it cost 10k-50k for a run of the arena, voila money sink.

These are just some examples of things that I know could be planned, or are ideas I've heard tossed around that could be modified to be money sinks proper that actually benefit the game instead of hindering it, and help trade along without just giving things away.