Sirschmoopy
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This question is directed to Thothie.
Why hasn't JM (as known as journey man) been banned yet?
Why hasn't JM (as known as journey man) been banned yet?
Serious Question.
- Thread starter Sirschmoopy
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Just had to post this some place where it'd take me awhile to delete it, didn't you?
We have enough drama here without people trying to start forum fires. Don't ask questions you know I have no good answers for.
We have enough drama here without people trying to start forum fires. Don't ask questions you know I have no good answers for.
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Sirschmoopy
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not trying to start a flame war or any drama just asking a simple question.Thothie said:Just had to post this some place where it'd take me awhile to delete it, didn't you?
We have enough drama here without people trying to start forum fires. Don't ask questions you know I have no good answers for.
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- #4
Hahahahahaha
/bookmarks thread
/bookmarks thread
Hemeriodius
New Adventurer
Sirschmoopy said:
Good question. After all the intentional havoc and mess he has caused over the last couple of years, you'd think he would have been booted out long ago.
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I hope you guys never, ever, EVER lead countries.
WAAA HE'S QUESTIONING THE WAY WE DO THINGS
WAAA HE'S QUESTIONING THE WAY WE DO THINGS
- Banned
- #7
You guys are not being very original, seeing as how my good, trusted friend villager already tried to get me banned over a year ago (June 7th, 2008).villager said:
But I do not expect originality from DarkTide's #1 brainless moron and DarkTide's #1 most uninspired suck-up, respectively.
Edit: And just before you guys take that approach again, I'll just repeat that I don't have a problem with DarkTide. It's just the two of you who give a bad name to the guild that houses exceptional community members such as Rickler, Dridje and Sogak. Perhaps you people should refrain from posting?
Hemeriodius
New Adventurer
Tentadrilus said:
You must be blind if you seriously believe that JM is just "questioning the way we do things"
Hemeriodius
New Adventurer
J-M v2.5.5 said:
I must say your really good at this "straw man" stuff. Dodging the main point completely to make one of the most retarded claims in history. *claps*
- Banned
- #10
This thread never had a point to begin with as it was made by someone who doesn't even have a brain, so I don't really see your point (get it)...
Hemeriodius
New Adventurer
JM v2.5.5 said:
no...
JM v.3.5.5 said:
Your friend Tent there seems to be also lacking a brain. If Schmoopys opinions are moot due to his apparent lack of a brain then so are tents.
JM v.2.5.5 said:
The point was why on earth has someone who has done this much damage and has nothing but plans to do more damage in the future been allowed to stay here for this long?
- Banned
- #12
Huh? Not even I'm aware of this.Hemercomplainius said:
What kind of horrible things am I going to do in the future?
Am I going to *shiver* talk, in-game, about game mechanics?
Am I going to *shake* help people beat maps, so they can get items?
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If he's not questioning, what's he doing? Before you say "destroying", think about that answer. If he was trying to destroy it, don't you think he'd do it in a more exact manner?
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Don't worry, the mean men will be leaving shortly.
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- #16
Well, if we wind up banning J-M as a result of this thread, I think we should ban Sirschmoopy on the same basis. Two folks that are causing mass destruction and are completely blind to what they do.
*sigh* I shouldn't need to tally J-M's crimes, and in fact, I don't think I can, as there's always about a hundred things I forget, but the fact that Tent, or anyone, would think the guillotine standing over his head is just there because he "critiques the way we run the game" suggests his propaganda has been so effective that something needs to be said.
J-M has cost us Evaan, Shuriken, Gaz, Drigien, StevenLAFL, and Jester... He's nearly cost us MiB. Effectively, we've lost every fully trained scripter we've had, our best modeler, and every coder we've ever had, either by perpetual harassment from J-M himself, or by the various movements he perpetuates against these devs that he sees as part of his "righteous rebellion". About a half-dozen more minor devs have cited J-M and the hate he spreads as the reason that drove them away, and another dozen potential devs ran off screaming just after reading one or two of his threads. People do NOT want to work for a community lead by a power-mad fanatic who attacks everything they do.
In short: J-M, has cost us nearly every developer we've ever had, and thus is the core reason there has not been a patch in over a year.
After talking to some of the former MS devs regarding the subject, I realize that this ability to destroy mods by organizing anti-developer groups well pre-dates MSC. Some of them cite J-M and those like him as among the reasons the original team fell apart, seconded only to the in-fighting.
J-M spent years, nearly an eighth of his life, if I count his age correctly, as the go-to man for cheats for Mastersword, creating multiple web pages full of cheats for pre-Steam MS. All in some sort of anti-developer crusade.
Now, I rode the original teams pretty hard from time to time myself, but I never spent that time trying to get them to get my character more power, nor actually attempting to sabotage their efforts. I only begged that they make the game more open for new players, which, eventually, they did. I pushed the envelope of good taste once or twice, but I never did it with selfish motivation, and I didn't spread any cheats that would add to their already daunting workload.
MiB is convinced that the last cheat J-M spread must be nixed before he's willing to make a code release, so that alone has added at least another four months to the release date of the project, thus far.
...So... Why hasn't he been banned?
Well, for starters, as I mentioned, much like Sirschmoopy, I do not think he understands the evil that he does, even when it's pointed out to him. He's convinced himself he's doing some sort of crusade for the good of the game, rather than his ego, and as a side effect, he *occasionally* does something useful. Obviously not anything remotely useful enough to make up for the loss of developers, but enough to suggest that at least part of his heart is in the right place, and that he may yet be capable of redemption: turned into a force of creation instead of destruction.
Secondly, for banning him to do much good, it would have had to have been done about two years ago. He's caused enough destruction to bring the mod to its knees. Assuming he keeps going the down same path, there's not much more he can do to it, as long as we keep the team-whine policies we have now.
Lastly, and I'm ashamed to say, probably most critically: we're afraid. This crops up every time some dev or other suggests having him banned: that fact that he's such a force of destruction when he's presenting himself as a fan of the mod, makes it is just extremely frightening to think what he'd be capable of, were he to become an self-admitted enemy of the mod. As I said, he spent a good portion of his life spreading cheats for MS, and there's nothing stopping him from doing it so actively again. He's got more connections and know how than ever - including to some skilled folks who know how to cheat better than he, who are already active enemies of MSC, but not nearly so tenacious as J-M. I don't even want to think about the near instant shut-down of this mod that certain folks could achieve if they put their minds together, or suddenly had a dynamic-aggressive type personality to lead them. So, Catch-22.
Despite all that, however, I'm not saying we *wont* ban him. More than ever the rewards to risk ratio is nearly even.
Likely this thread will be deleted before the folks that should really read this can, but at least the PR effort was made.
*sigh* I shouldn't need to tally J-M's crimes, and in fact, I don't think I can, as there's always about a hundred things I forget, but the fact that Tent, or anyone, would think the guillotine standing over his head is just there because he "critiques the way we run the game" suggests his propaganda has been so effective that something needs to be said.
J-M has cost us Evaan, Shuriken, Gaz, Drigien, StevenLAFL, and Jester... He's nearly cost us MiB. Effectively, we've lost every fully trained scripter we've had, our best modeler, and every coder we've ever had, either by perpetual harassment from J-M himself, or by the various movements he perpetuates against these devs that he sees as part of his "righteous rebellion". About a half-dozen more minor devs have cited J-M and the hate he spreads as the reason that drove them away, and another dozen potential devs ran off screaming just after reading one or two of his threads. People do NOT want to work for a community lead by a power-mad fanatic who attacks everything they do.
In short: J-M, has cost us nearly every developer we've ever had, and thus is the core reason there has not been a patch in over a year.
After talking to some of the former MS devs regarding the subject, I realize that this ability to destroy mods by organizing anti-developer groups well pre-dates MSC. Some of them cite J-M and those like him as among the reasons the original team fell apart, seconded only to the in-fighting.
J-M spent years, nearly an eighth of his life, if I count his age correctly, as the go-to man for cheats for Mastersword, creating multiple web pages full of cheats for pre-Steam MS. All in some sort of anti-developer crusade.
Now, I rode the original teams pretty hard from time to time myself, but I never spent that time trying to get them to get my character more power, nor actually attempting to sabotage their efforts. I only begged that they make the game more open for new players, which, eventually, they did. I pushed the envelope of good taste once or twice, but I never did it with selfish motivation, and I didn't spread any cheats that would add to their already daunting workload.
MiB is convinced that the last cheat J-M spread must be nixed before he's willing to make a code release, so that alone has added at least another four months to the release date of the project, thus far.
...So... Why hasn't he been banned?
Well, for starters, as I mentioned, much like Sirschmoopy, I do not think he understands the evil that he does, even when it's pointed out to him. He's convinced himself he's doing some sort of crusade for the good of the game, rather than his ego, and as a side effect, he *occasionally* does something useful. Obviously not anything remotely useful enough to make up for the loss of developers, but enough to suggest that at least part of his heart is in the right place, and that he may yet be capable of redemption: turned into a force of creation instead of destruction.
Secondly, for banning him to do much good, it would have had to have been done about two years ago. He's caused enough destruction to bring the mod to its knees. Assuming he keeps going the down same path, there's not much more he can do to it, as long as we keep the team-whine policies we have now.
Lastly, and I'm ashamed to say, probably most critically: we're afraid. This crops up every time some dev or other suggests having him banned: that fact that he's such a force of destruction when he's presenting himself as a fan of the mod, makes it is just extremely frightening to think what he'd be capable of, were he to become an self-admitted enemy of the mod. As I said, he spent a good portion of his life spreading cheats for MS, and there's nothing stopping him from doing it so actively again. He's got more connections and know how than ever - including to some skilled folks who know how to cheat better than he, who are already active enemies of MSC, but not nearly so tenacious as J-M. I don't even want to think about the near instant shut-down of this mod that certain folks could achieve if they put their minds together, or suddenly had a dynamic-aggressive type personality to lead them. So, Catch-22.
Despite all that, however, I'm not saying we *wont* ban him. More than ever the rewards to risk ratio is nearly even.
Likely this thread will be deleted before the folks that should really read this can, but at least the PR effort was made.
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Thothie said:
What have we learnt? You shouldn't pay your internet bill if you're afraid of nasty people calling you names, or even worse, having the audacity, the pure, unharnessed nerve, to point things out.
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- #18
TL;DR as predicted.
Okay, I don't know why some people don't understand the difference between expressing an opinion now and again, and actively starting a movement to sabotage the game. It's an all or nothing culture, I suppose.
The fact that he's driven away so many people critical to this game's existence, suggests there's a lot more going on here than some "oversensitivity" as you seem to be insinuating. Motivation is the key resource to keeping a mod going, and thanks to J-M and his efforts, we ain't got none - thus you get no updates. Work it out.
Okay, I don't know why some people don't understand the difference between expressing an opinion now and again, and actively starting a movement to sabotage the game. It's an all or nothing culture, I suppose.
The fact that he's driven away so many people critical to this game's existence, suggests there's a lot more going on here than some "oversensitivity" as you seem to be insinuating. Motivation is the key resource to keeping a mod going, and thanks to J-M and his efforts, we ain't got none - thus you get no updates. Work it out.
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Thothie said:
Yes, it's an awful shame you struggle so hard with this. You don't need to refer to yourself in such a round-about way, though.
I'm also intrigued as to this "movement" you keep mentioning. What is it, and who are you referring to?
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*sigh* No... I'm one of the few developers who hasn't been driven completely away - I just stepped down. I realized nothing I could do in the leadership position could keep developers on with J-M continuously driving them away, thus all my efforts to get a real team going were for naught. Further, all my efforts to ease J-M's wrath through compromise and slow stepping were actually becoming detrimental to the game (in addition to futile). The only real hope was to get a new authoritarian leader willing to ignore his antics entirely and do what needed to be done, regardless of how much whining would ensue. ...Sadly, it seems even the best Nazis have endurance limits though.
There's a reason I don't name the members of Team Whine.Yeah_right said:
sweet more forum drama!
I personally agree with thothie's opinion of things related to JM to a certain extent, mostly because I haven't been around nearly as long.
I personally left due to drama caused between JM and another developer shuriken, while I don't regret what I did. I don't think it should have gone in the direction it did, I was attempting to handle it with a bit of tact. VS what actually happened, after that my neutral stance on things became polarized. I was basically forced into either believing BoU or RiP.
What does this have to do with anything? Simple its a fact as stated in thothies previous posts, all he did was wrap his opinion on the subject around it. I am just an example of what has happened and what it has caused developers of the mod to do, while I may not agree I also wouldn't say I am against the idea either. You can't knock the facts of what has happened with JM around, one has to question what would have been had he not been here? Same can be said of almost everyone though, what would have become of the mod had thothie left or was never around?
I personally agree with thothie's opinion of things related to JM to a certain extent, mostly because I haven't been around nearly as long.
I personally left due to drama caused between JM and another developer shuriken, while I don't regret what I did. I don't think it should have gone in the direction it did, I was attempting to handle it with a bit of tact. VS what actually happened, after that my neutral stance on things became polarized. I was basically forced into either believing BoU or RiP.
What does this have to do with anything? Simple its a fact as stated in thothies previous posts, all he did was wrap his opinion on the subject around it. I am just an example of what has happened and what it has caused developers of the mod to do, while I may not agree I also wouldn't say I am against the idea either. You can't knock the facts of what has happened with JM around, one has to question what would have been had he not been here? Same can be said of almost everyone though, what would have become of the mod had thothie left or was never around?
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IBTL
I do believe & support the fact that X members of darktide aren't worth being in that guild from what i've seen.
Then again this is another fail of a thread that wont help you in anything, if WE hate certain DT members, then let it be because there's reasons for that. Also from my point of view IF JM would get banned it would be a "good" thing for you mindless folks and also a "bad" thing from those who understand the consequences of doing such thing, then again if he got banned just now, none of you would diserve to get away and not getting the same punishment.
All these things brought up on the forums arent even worth discussing if you think deeply before making a mistake.
Then again this is another fail of a thread that wont help you in anything, if WE hate certain DT members, then let it be because there's reasons for that. Also from my point of view IF JM would get banned it would be a "good" thing for you mindless folks and also a "bad" thing from those who understand the consequences of doing such thing, then again if he got banned just now, none of you would diserve to get away and not getting the same punishment.
All these things brought up on the forums arent even worth discussing if you think deeply before making a mistake.
