Tentadrilus' (Very Slow) MS:C Wiki Revamp

[Tentadrilus]

Hello there.

I have taken it upon myself to help improve the Wiki by constructing a quick and efficient navigation system (through the medium of tables and black magic) as well as providing it with in-depth, up-to-date and reliable information. I plan to do this so that people will start readily using the wiki; I believe that it could be an incredibly useful source of knowledge, but we are frittering away and ignoring it. My idea is that me and perhaps a few other like-minded people would lay down the foundations of the wiki for the community, upon which they will continue to build.

Now, I'm sure many of you don't necessarily think the same way, but I think this could help the community greatly. We could have pages which talk about bugs, workarounds, fixes and new maps and whatnot. However, I've run into the ickle problem in that the Wiki base lacks any sort of templates, for example infoboxes (those handy little synopsis boxes on the right of Wikipedia articles). If I had access to those, I could start making pages less... well, bland. Of course, you have the right to ignore me, at which point I'll shut up and work with what I have.

Please, by all means, discuss my plans or pledge allegiance or swear violently about it here.

 

[Gurluas]

I have reworked the world, Calrian, Garonhroth, Undamael and Nashalrath articles to reflect the current lore.
So for official lore with direct ties to the sequel, Master-Sword source, look at all articles i have recently modified.

 

[Thothie]

Please do... Just no spoilers or custom mythology. Keep in mind that it's a vague guide, not a walk through or statistics analysis. Orochi, for instance, went through all the items describing weather they could be purchased or not, those comments should all be removed.

Somewhat OT, but I've got Drigien's TGA display working proper, so I was considering writing up three books for in game usage:
• The Book of Fate - Describing the Loreldian war
• The Book of Blood - Describing the Age of Blood
• The Book of Adventure - Illustrated Newbie Guide

The first two books I was considering writing up in bible'esque (light) linguistic fashion, and also considering tweaking the mythology to even it out and deal with some of the contradictions as I once described in some ancient thread someplace.

Something like this:

But hopefully more legible.

Only thing that worries me is I'm thinking it'll be about 2MB per page. :/ TGA's compress well, but I'm thinking it might be best if these were integrated into a new full installer to keep the betapack size down.

PS. Little-G, promoting Undmael from Malgoriand's general to king does not work with the existing mythology nor that already described in the game itself by more than one NPC. We've plans for him and the other Dreadlords, so as I said, no custom mythology, lest you want to shunt it off to its own section, plzktnx.

 

[Gurluas]

When i became the loreguy i had to consult Lanethan on several subjects, Undamael was one of them and this was his response:

The haunted forest: What does the "s" in "sfor" signify? And what's with the whole Undamael business in this place?

The s in sfor stands for "Spooky." Obviously I didn't have my hand in naming the map file, otherwise it would have been called something else (an elven name, likely). Undamael does have a storyline, one that I wasn't particularly included in creating but I remember most of it: Lord Undamael was a human wizard/king who established dominance in this realm sometime after the old ages (i.e. post "Attan" but pre "the war with Lor Malgoriand" ages), but his general Calrian revolted against him and in the ensuing magical battle the entire area was cursed, and its totally undead-land around there. Charthane was Undamael's hall, Calrian's Tomb is self explanatory.

The Elven name was later inquired to be Eswen Mallan.

Even if Lanethan was not directly involve it was nevertheless what was accepted and became an integral part of the lore.

While you may consider my mythology custom even if its not(Its basically the official consistent lore of the sequel, and a sequel should tie in with the...Prequel), i bet you wont consider Lanethan's as custom.
Anyway i have tied the things together by raising from the dead and making him become a dreadlord after the whole Calrian ordeal.

 

[Thothie]

Sembelbin, the Master Priest of Edana, has been telling the story of Undamael since 1.0 - well before Steam, and well before you and 99% of our players found MS. Evaan said that Lanethan re-wrote all his dialogue, so evidentially he forgot. Don't intend to move from core lore that's been doctrine for nearly a decade now, given what we've already built on it. If you want to rape it, you can add custom lore to the MSS section, but they also have their own wiki.

 

[Gurluas]

That wiki is offlimit (Or should be)
Well i dont see how it goes against the current lore if Undamael was raised as a dreadlord later in the storyline.
The main reason for that little change is actually for Calrian in mss (I wont spoil that surprise here)

 

[Thothie]

Well, this is how the history of Calrian and Undamael work, as I understand it.

There were three Dread Lords: Guldacor, Atholo, and Undamael.

Guldacor, The Green Knight, was a mysterious ally obtained just before the dawn of the Age of Blood by Lor Malgoriand. He had the ability to strike tremendous fear by his mere presence. He may have been a mortal friend from Lor Malgriand's pre-Avatar days as Jiro (I know I have docs on his history somewherez). In the battle following Lor Malgoriand's first major victory, when he placed the city of Weldar forever beneath the ocean and Jiro first acquired his new name from the elves as a result, Guldacor was slain by a mere elven child.

It maybe that someone resurrects Guldacor, and now he can only be slain by a child, leading to the escort mission from hell.

The next Dread Lord was Atholo, an undead elven knight, raised by Lor Malgoriand to do his bidding and replace his fallen Green Knight. Atholo was defeated and sealed away in a campaign against the remnants of elven forces that had holed up in the Valley of Bloodrose. His end came at the hands of a priestess of Felewyn, who sacrificed herself in the process. (Whose ghost explains as much.)

Undamael was the last and most terrible of the Dread Lords; an assembled necromantic abomination formed from thousands of dead slain at Lor Malgoriand's own hands. His power was so immense, that even after Lor Maloriand's defeat, he continued to plague the world, until finally a circle of wizards manage to seal him within Eswen Mallan. To this day, even sealed away, his power continues to keep the forest plunged in darkness, and the dead there never rest.

Lord Calrian was a king, of sorts. Lord of the Great Castle Carthaine, that fell to the power of Undamael's armies. When this happened, he became a necromancer, and his brother, the blacksmith/enchanter Garonhroth were both forced and seduced to join the armies of Undamael, one to serve as lieutenant and the other weapons maker. When Undamael's power was sealed, so was theirs, trapped forever in the complex tomb they had made their home. Before Undamael's fall, Garonhroth forged the weapons for Calrian's army of dead, while Calrian himself provided the reanimated soldiers to wield them. Garonhroth also created the armor of Sir Geric, a fallen elven Knight of Urdual from an unbalanced temple, who was tricked by the Orcs into accepting it, when he sought to join them. Eventually his soul was trapped therein, and he became yet another mindless undead abomination under the thrall of Lor Malgoriand's power. He too, was one day sealed away, on a distant island.

So while I suppose Undmael's left toe might have come from a king, it seems unlikely he was any one person before his creation.

 

[The Man In Black]

Guldacor came from the resurrected corpse of Jiro's brother (who he himself killed).

 

[Thothie]

Ah yes, I knew I had that info somewhere... Gotta consolidate all this lore crap. I don't think everything I have is Lanethan cannon, some was added by Evaan, or maybe even Dogg,

 

[The Man In Black]

It was in "Lanethan"

 

[Tentadrilus]

Would item abilities be considered spoilers? My reasoning is that if you've played MS:C on a public server, you would have seen people using the weapons anyway and would have gotten an idea of their power. I've added them, but I can remove them if that's a bit too spoiler-y.

I've left the wiki weapon pages largely untouched, and added the recent ones, so they still have their original descriptions. Most of them are a bit... odd, though. If you provide me with a bit of lore behind each artifact, I can tart it up and turn it into a pageful if you want.

 

[Gurluas]

I based my lore on everything currently released so no shit that i could not get Undamael's backstory.
Thats what happends when there is no set lore documents.

Im torn between canning the lore i made to use the other lore.
Because i really really like what i had planned for Calrian.

I think im going to base my lore on what is currently set in Msc, and Lanethan's several lore compilation.
I dont feel like canning all the work i have prepared for Calrian.

Also Guldacor?
I recall his name was Beldagar?
And it was the human capital of Adel, nowhere is it mentioned it was an elven child?

Lor Malgoriand’s next target surprised all: he intended to attack Adel, the human capital. Kurgoth, realizing that he would once again throw away his power in folly, furiously raged, taking the form of a mighty storm.

Lor Malgoriands’s power, however, was underestimated. His army flooded through Adel, slaughtering hundreds. The houses burned like torches, lit ablaze by flaming arrows, and the remnants of the once mighty dwellings of the humans toppled into themselves like so many frail sticks of wood.

The creatures which Torkalath had given to Lor Malgoriand proved too strong for the human patrols. The last remaining elves in Lor Cledsari named these creatures Orcat, the ‘scar of the world,’ and so it is that the ‘Orc’ is named today.
Beldagar stood before a small family, the father brandishing a sword with a wild look of terror in his eyes. As Beldagar approached, the fear which he generated overcame the man’s body: the father slumped to the ground lifeless, a deep slash through his ribcage pouring blood onto the stone street. The mother released her child from her protective grip and ran to the father, crying out. Beldagar mercilessly stabbed her through the heart.

The child, a young boy, silently approached his parents. His face showed no emotion, no mourn or sadness, but above all, no fear. In the child’s hand flashed a flare of silver, a dagger of fine metal, which he quickly stabbed through the breastplate of Beldagar, who howled in pain and anger. The shimmering green armor fell to the street, and the hideous black substance that he was made of spilled out, steaming with a shrill whistle, evaporating.

Even the loss of their terrible general did not stop the armies of Lor Malgoriand from destroying the rest of Adel. The houses burned into the night, and the great towers crumbled. As the child looked up at the towers falling, it seemed to him that they were not towers but memories of his parents, all crumbling to dust. Then, it seemed, he could see a woman’s face, now intently looking at him.

 

[Tentadrilus]

Current progress:

• Added a shoddy little navigation menu to the weapons and monster lists.
  Now you can actually get around without having to go back to the main page. It ain't pretty, but due to the lack of templates I can't really do much else
  
• Expanded some of the pages within said lists.
  I've fixed some of the strange grammar and attempted to give people a little more to read. I find mostly-white wiki pages quite depressing. Feel free to review and comment and whatnot.
  
• Updated the weapons lists with the new weapons, as well as weapon abilities.
  Added a few pages for the new additions. I understand the whole weapon-ability thing might be a bit too spoilery. I can take it out if you wish.

What I'm aiming to do:

• Get some templates
  I'm going to investigate whether or not we can acquire some wiki templates, like those snazzy little info boxes you get on the side of wikipedia articles. That'll really go a long way to help make the whole thing a little more streamlined and easier to read.
• Add pictures, LOTS OF THEM
  I'm hoping to add pictures of all the items as well as for some of the monsters. I'll obviously omit all the bosses and whatnot, because people can fight through maps for themselves if they want to see bosses. Lazy bastards.
• Improve the main page so that you don't have to scroll down to click on stuff
  i.e. sort it all into horizontal boxes which contain all the links and stuff.
• Set up a page for updates and bugs
  Contains nice 'n' conside information about the current patch (not saying that yours isn't already, Thoth )

I'm going to be doing this for a loooooooooong time...

P.S. Gurluas, you're the loremaster for MS:S, not MS:C. Getting into a fight with a developer on his own sacred ground will only end badly.

 

[Gurluas]

Well i'm just trying to coordinate the lore between the two games, it will be pretty odd if Undamael is only a general here while Calrian is a king, then the sequel arrives and Undamael was a king before he became a general and Calrian was always a general.

 

[FER]

Well... maybe you could explain it by:

-same universe different events
-sidestory not related to the original game
-its a f*cking game, concentrate on gameplay
-a bludgeon did it

 

[Gurluas]

Well Maybe, but its not a side story, it is part of the main plot
Calrian is one of the surviving bosses from the original by the way, most of them are dead.

 

[Thothie]

Calrian's dead in MSC, in case ye hadn't noticed.

I based my lore on everything currently released so no **** that i could not get Undamael's backstory. Thats what happends when there is no set lore documents.

Undamael's backstory is told by the Master and High Priests of Edana and Gatecity, and by the wizards that imprison him.

Guldacor's back story is a bit murkier, as is Lor Malgoriand's. In one story Jiro starts out as an innocent farm boy when Torkaloth chooses him, in another he's already an evil wizard of great power. In one story, Guldacor is slain by an elven child from the ruined Melenion, in another, by a child from Adel named Dhero, after his parents were brutally slaughtered in front of him. (And well call Beldagar "Guldacor", for the same reason we call Jiro "Lor Malgoriand".)

But, unlike Undamael, neither of those stories is yet covered by the NPC's in the game.

I do intend to butcher the mythology a bit myself eventually, not to mention make it cohesive, but I'd like to at least keep consistent with the current in-game texts.

Would item abilities be considered spoilers? My reasoning is that if you've played MS:C on a public server, you would have seen people using the weapons anyway and would have gotten an idea of their power. I've added them, but I can remove them if that's a bit too spoiler-y.

So long as they are descriptive rather than statistical. Shoots flaming skulls and spawns volcanos is fine... Does XX/dmg per second not so much so. Personally, I'd like level requirements for basics and abilities in there as well, but I'm not sure how MiB feels about that.

 

[Gurluas]

Calrian's dead in MSC, in case ye hadn't noticed.

I based my lore on everything currently released so no **** that i could not get Undamael's backstory. Thats what happends when there is no set lore documents.

Undamael's backstory is told by the Master and High Priests of Edana and Gatecity, and by the wizards that imprison him.

Guldacor's back story is a bit murkier, as is Lor Malgoriand's. In one story Jiro starts out as an innocent farm boy when Torkaloth chooses him, in another he's already an evil wizard of great power. In one story, Guldacor is slain by an elven child from the ruined Melenion, in another, by a child from Adel named Dhero, after his parents were brutally slaughtered in front of him. (And well call Beldagar "Guldacor", for the same reason we call Jiro "Lor Malgoriand".)

But, unlike Undamael, neither of those stories is yet covered by the NPC's in the game.

I do intend to butcher the mythology a bit myself eventually, not to mention make it cohesive, but I'd like to at least keep consistent with the current in-game texts.

Would item abilities be considered spoilers? My reasoning is that if you've played MS:C on a public server, you would have seen people using the weapons anyway and would have gotten an idea of their power. I've added them, but I can remove them if that's a bit too spoiler-y.

So long as they are descriptive rather than statistical. Shoots flaming skulls and spawns volcanos is fine... Does XX/dmg per second not so much so. Personally, I'd like level requirements for basics and abilities in there as well, but I'm not sure how MiB feels about that.

You never actually kill him as you fail to destroy the tomb and you never carry that errand to an end, thus Calrian is alive in mss.

As for the lore, i see it as priority 1 to follow Lanethan's lore and mythos since the world is after all built by him.
All of my work does not contradict Lanethan, some may deviate a little but never does it directly contradict anything in either of the two works of lore.

As for Undamael, in my story he was a king before the whole Malgoriand thing who was unliked by his people and accused of genocide for murdering the innocent, his geberal Calrian a much more friendly towards his people, one day he found out that Undamael was a worshipper of dark magics and of Torkalath, he revolted and fought bravely with the populace but died and was buried in his tomb by whatever remains of his followers.

Later when Malgoriand rose, he raised Undamael as a dreadlord, and he in turns raised Calrian and his brother.

Thats the story which mss will follow, as for what happends later i wont spoil that.

 

[PBarnum]

The Frozen Summit (Avoozl and P|Barnum)

The Haunted Castle (P|Barnum) and what ever description you want to put in for that map.

 

[Thothie]

Well fix it. It's a wiki after all.

You never actually kill him as you fail to destroy the tomb and you never carry that errand to an end, thus Calrian is alive in mss.

Actually, you can destroy the tomb, and get a better treasure, if yer really fast... Or you *could* if it worked, anyway. >_> (Gotta fix that someday.)

Lanethan has lots of self-contradictory stuff in his writings, as I suspect he improved the mythology as it went over time and he improved as a writer, but as a result, I go on what actually made it into the game, first and foremost (albeit, some of the lore is inaccessible due to older script conventions, on list of things to fix). Additionally, as he himself has pointed out repeatedly, the world isn't entirely his. Several other early developers (a few earlier than even himself) created things, expanded, and re-defined it.

Nothing's sacred or set in stone, but I don't want people running around the wiki willy-nilly creating alternate time lines. They take a long time to clean up, and I've only got the one Tardis. (Bad enough I had to go back in time and ask Dogg to implement Stoned's quickslot idea, instead of preventing 9/11 as I had originally planned.)

Also no clue why you, as MSS lore master, don't have access to your own wiki. :\

 

[Gurluas]

I have access to the wiki but the function of that wiki should be coordination of the team such as task lists etc, it is not a wiki like yours.

Anyway i was just trying to piece the lore together between the two games.