tundra discussion

[Thothie]

He has them - some of the things he's attempting more or less requires he use a few of em. I dunno how he could put out maps this quickly without them. Granted, there's a lot of encounters that don't seem very well tested, so maybe he isn't using them as often as they should, but I suspect that has more to do with his monster randomization, and his simply not getting the same combination of encounters as I do, thus I'm seeing combinations that he hasn't, and they dun always work so gud. I know he at least uses "usetrigger" left and right, as he should, having commented about something not responding to it.

Ya don't use them every time, of course, if that's what you're thinking. (I mean, I always have em on, as I never know when I'm gonna need them, but I don't go slaying stuff when I'm testing balance issues, or teleporting when I'm looking for brushwork problems.)

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

You should PM him a list, last I spoke to him he doesn't know many.

It would have helped

 

[Thothie]

Well there's only six, so, he can't know "many" ... Tier1 dev commands only consists of maybe six map related commands and four script related ones. He has them all.

edit: He has this document, but with a password:

Tier1 Developer Commands:
This is to make life easier for map and script testing.
These commands will not work on [FN]. They are all console commands and can be bound to keys.

- Commands: -
devcmd tele <x> <y> <z>
- Teleport to a point, eg. “devcmd tele -128 256 -1024”
- Use the xyz console command to find points, right click-copy and paste
- note: use the CENTER location as, unlike monsters, player's locations are not based on their feet.

devcmd teledest <targetname>
- Teleport to a specific entity by its targetname
- Only works on point entities, and entities with origin brushes
- Beware, depending on entity's position, you may get stuck (in which case, use "tospawn", below).

devcmd tospawn [spawn_name]
- Teleports you to a random ms_player_spawn
- If a spawn name is included, teleports you to an ms_player_spawn with a matching "message" name
- Very useful for testing maps with multiple spawn areas
- eg. devcmd tospawn from_hunderswamp_east

devcmd usetrig <targetname>
- Activates a map trigger. eg. “devcmd usetrig blue_door”

devcmd slayall [evil]
- Kills every active monster (fireallpersish friendly) eg. "devcmd slayall evil"
- The optional [evil] flag slays only hostile npcs (non hguard/human)

fakehp <xxx>
- This affects hpreq monster spawns and scaling as well as hp based triggers, but not treasure. Does not require dev mode be active, although it doesn't work on FN either.
- eg. fakehp 9999
- You can also use the cvar: ms_fakehp xxx

...and script helpers:

• devcmd event <event_name> [params...]
- calls a scripted event on the NPC you are targeting.
• devcmd eventme <event_name> [params...]
- calls a scripted event on your player script.
• devcmd eventall <event_name> [params...]
- calls a scripted event on all present NPCs, players, and items.
• devcmd eventgm <event_name> [params...]
- calls a scripted event on the game_master.

(He's using Fakehp a lot I'm sure - cuz he has to.)

The "slaytarget" command is achieved by binding something to "devcmd event npc_suicide".

(He got his document quite awhile ago, so he might not have 'devcmd teledest <targetname>' - though it's mentioned in the changelog.)

 

[MS:C community]

I must say, Shadowplay caps some nice high quality vids with zero overhead - just wish I didn't need GeForce Experience to run the fricken thing.

I got curious and installed GeForce Experience to test this Shadowplay thing, and I'm just amazed at the result. I managed to record a 2160p 4K HD video at 30 FPS, five minutes in length, and the filesize is only 400 MB! How is this even possible? This is pure black magic to me. I had to check the file information in VLC because I simply didn't believe the file would be only 400 MB in size.

...especially after using FRAPS the other day to record that video of me at the Goldsource map boundary in MS:C. That video (1080p HD, barely 30 FPS, 03:46 minutes long) was 8.89 GB in size! And my (fairly ancient) hard disk drive had trouble keeping up with such a huge file being written to it, hence the FPS lag in the video.

Edit: That was desktop capture. In-game capture like ten times as big, but still pretty good.

 

[Thothie]

Ya think that's good, throw this at the result:
https://gitgud.io/nixx/WebMConverter

Click on VP9/Orbis on the Advanced Tab, and try maybe 25 CRF/63 Tolerance on the Encoding Tab. (Also be sure to trim the video to 2 mins or so, if you want this easily streamable, and to encode in any reasonable time. Crop, if you're like me, and doing desktop captures.)

My only complaint about Shadowplay is the GeForce Experience requirement - by the gods that thing is crap, and ya gotta open it and wait for it to do yet more crap anytime you wanna adjust the Shadowplay settings. Bandicam is supposed to use the NVenc codec when asked, but it dun wanna work for me. Not sure about Fraps.

 

[Thothie]

Here's 5 minutes of nearly lossless 1080p/60fps streamable video for 208MB. Streamable, even on my craptastic host:
http://www.thothie.com/msc_dev4/bioshoc ... begin.webm
(Though, in Europe, ya may need to buffer a few seconds, not sure.)

And that's with CRF 35/68 Tolerance. ...Albeit, freaking half hour to compile.

It's a little jumpy here and there, as I didn't close anything before I started recording... Bunch of crap operating in the background. Plus both Hammer and Milkshape probably requesting vid frames.

The drunk-walk I have no excuse for.

...Think I got Bandicam working though... I'll have to see if it retains the performance.

 

[zeus9860]

Wtf, shadowplay for me 5 minutes recording on highest quality is 1.9GB.

I've used it once before, in fallout 4, it was good. I agree with Thothie on the geforce experience, that crap is god damn awfull and pretty much one of the main sources that f*cks up your gpu with corrupt files.

I've only installed it again recently just for the shadowplay feature, it's the closest thing to ps4 recording feature, which is something i use often when playing on it.

http://www.thothie.com/msc_dev4/bioshock_infinite_dlc2_begin.webm

Ah damn, bioshock infinite eye candy. Still have that game installed waiting for a replay one of these days...

 

[Thothie]

Well, I crunched it down with Webm for Retards in an effort to demonstrate the effectiveness of Webm as well as Shadowplay. The source video is, yeah, 1.4GB for just under 5mins.

Not sure what you get out of it if you reduce the quality, but with vid cap I'm used to crunching it down after the fact.

Bandicam+NVenc results were mixed - performance isn't quite as good. Quality is on par. May need to fiddle with settings a bit. Bandicam has more features than Shadowplay and bypasses the GFE crap - I just wish it had a mouse follow option for small "how to do X" videos.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

Tundra discussion, now with 100% less Tundra!

 

[MS:C community]

This is extremely useful though (although I've yet to try that Webm for Retards thing).

 

[Thothie]

I've not started on the Tundra mapping bits yet, so there's still time for someone to step in. Scripting bits be done though, so I may start anytime.

If you wanna get even less Tundra though... At the moment, I've kinda run into a roadblock with the new elves. Specifically that the bone their weapons are on does not go into their hands when they are running. So... Either I gotta do a whole lotta animation, or we get this thing where they run up to you bare handed, then when they get close, draw and get ready to swing - and if you back off - they sheath, chase after you, rinse and repeat. Blah.

I'm tempted to just *try* to rig up these meshes to the current elven skeleton and be done with it, but 1) It'd be a waste of a bunch of new animations, and 2) I'm not sure if I can pull it off.

 

[MS:C community]

As far as I'm concerned, an updated tundra isn't a priority at all.

I'm also saying that ^ because I'd love to help with the mapping bits, but I don't really have time at the moment.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

As far as I'm concerned, an updated tundra isn't a priority at all.

 

[MS:C community]

 

[Thothie]

I dunno... When half your surveyed users cite "Tundra" as the most hated thing in MSC, seems ya should fix it, insomuch as you can.

Albeit, the sampling size was kinda small, and it is among the more popular maps, in terms up time. (Though I also suspect this fix may actually kill the primary motivation behind that.)

Think I fixed the male elf by kinda half-assedly gluing his sword to his left hand, and using a separate submodel for when it's sheathed (and on the original bone). Female's going to be trickier, for a number of technical reasons, not the least of which is that she has two swords, and they spin (edit: yeah, hrmm... This ain't happening). I think the drawn bow vanishing when they run or dodge we'll just have to live with, but it shouldn't be as common nor as jarring an oddity.

They do have to use the fake movement thing though... Trying to tweak it up to look more natural. It's less noticeable on the Hydra - since it's four legged and you tend to be looking up at it, the fact that it's gliding around isn't glaring - not so with these dern elves.

I think the author intended these models for a turned-based combat game or something. (Or maybe an RTS - something where moving and attacking would be separated.)

The prototype dynamic quest system is next on the list - I wrote a bunch of it up, but I think Greatguys is just about ready to polish off his improvements to the Galat Bank (which will include the ability to store ammo and potions, and improve efficiency of storage [ie. moar space]), thus I maybe able to pawn the task off to him soon after - as it seems the sort of raw logical coding that might be up his alley, as opposed to more fudgy work that is monster scripting.

 

[MS:C community]

Just for the record: I didn't list tundra as most hated thing in the game -- just mentioned it should be deleted

Edit: And that picture of Lucifer quoting me was... well I don't even know why I posted that. I don't know what I'm trying to achieve but I don't know what he is trying to achieve either.

 

[Thothie]

I think he meant to post, "I would like to second this fine man's opinion, good sir."

...Or, "^ this!"

In anycase, this is the elf problem... Already put the workaround in there, but it doesn't seem to be working around as it should. The fact that he slides while attacking is a side effect of the fake movement - tried to put something in there to stop that too - but it would also take this problem from aesthetic to game balance, as he wouldn't be able to hit you while you were moving (I mean, more so than usual), as he'd stop to sheath and draw the sword each time (sheathing through his chest, for some dern reason...).

edit: After finding some missing parentheses, fixed this for the male elves, used similar hacky fix for the females, and smoothed out the movement for both, they both be fixed now:
http://www.thothie.com/msc_dev4/neutered_elves2.webm
Looks fairly natural, despite the h4x. (Hrmm... Wonder why it jumps when I turn off the glow.)

Now to actually make them do stuffs...

 

[Thothie]

I know ya guys rather have me working on other stuff, but Greatguys is on the dynamic quest thing, and I need a break from elves now and again.

Maybe six hours work, including testing (90% testing), we ended up with:

• Tundra
- Made the jump puzzle a tad easier.
- Freezing water does much less damage and does not sap XP.
- Reduced the front area bear count (varies with # of players).
- Greater Polar Bears now use lesser stun.
- Upon reaching the shrine entrance, a portal from the boat to shore will open.
- Broke up the 40 Boars run into three waves:
-- First wave is 12 Huge Snow Boars and Greater Polar Bears, in groups of 2-4.
-- Second wave is 12 Ice Reavers in groups of 2-4, plus 3-6 Reaver Hatchling escort.
-- Third wave is 2-4 Icebone Ravagers (slightly nerfed) in groups of 2-4, with 1-4 Enraged Icebone escort.
-- Third wave also has 2 Skeletal Mage Apprentice snipers in the darkness, but they do not repeat.
--- (Bring some dwarven bolts, these guys are hard to reach.)
-- Group size varies with # of players, escorts and mages do not count towards wave advancement.
-- The shrine entrance will open when the Ice Ravager wave is complete.
- Atruth now provides you with a small spirit to help you track down his old mining expedition members quicker.
- "Huge Dwarves" and "Corrupter" dwarves, switched out for bloated dwarves.
- Various monster waves should remove proper now.
- Fixed some aesthetic issues.

(Those of you not familiar with Icebone Ravagers - there's a regular Ravager in Undercliffs, sometimes, and a fire based one on nightmare_edana - they use an alternate skeleton model, can crouch, crawl on ceilings, and do this windmill arm thing while attacking on the move, with beams trailing from their claw-tips.)

My experience is that the replacement boar waves turn into a bit of a bug hunt in single player (though hunting Icebone Ravagers in the dark while looking for cover from snipers is a borderline "Afraid of Monsters" experience - and when ya find both at once it is a bit daunting.) The "Gatecity North" dwarf hunt experience is still a bit monotonous, but the spirit makes it a bit more entertaining. I do need to find out if the spirit properly acquires a new master in instances of disconnect. There's also only one spirit for the whole group, so it might be more bane than gain if there's 4+ players who might be better off splitting up.

Remaking the jump puzzle from scratch turned out to be too complicated, but I tweaked it a bit, and provided a bypass.

I might send it off with an alpha pack in hopes that Oyster and Lucy will do some testing on it.

One bugger I'll have to look into is when the last Ravager dies, the sky does not return from darkness right away. I think it maybe a flaw in mstrig_weather and the fact that the darkness is in "locked" mode. This can leave ya hanging for a bit.

Also wanted to do something more creative than teleporters, but in addition to time eaten, I realized if I let folks build planks bank to the boat, they'd just use them to exploit the mobs.

Still wish I knew why Nanuk takes a few swipes at his escorts before coming after you - his race is set right. *shrug*

 

[Thothie]

Next time a map is too difficult for you to run normally and it needs to be tested, send it on over. I'll put it to the grindstone.

Also, unrelated but, the Lucifer refuses to test tundra.

So... Whatever happened to that?

Actually, I ran it normally a few dozen times, but it really needs a multiplayer test, and you did kinda volunteer, so...

Meanwhile... Gotta beat this wyrm into submission. (Why does everything sound like an innuendo right now...)

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

Next time a map is too difficult for you to run normally and it needs to be tested, send it on over. I'll put it to the grindstone.

Also, unrelated but, the Lucifer refuses to test tundra.

So... Whatever happened to that?

Actually, I ran it normally a few dozen times, but it really needs a multiplayer test, and you did kinda volunteer, so...

Meanwhile... Gotta beat this wyrm into submission. (Why does everything sound like an innuendo right now...)

I don't like being referred to as a dog, and would have had far more interest if you had sent it to me yourself.

 

[Thothie]

Next time a map is too difficult for you to run normally and it needs to be tested, send it on over. I'll put it to the grindstone.

Also, unrelated but, the Lucifer refuses to test tundra.

So... Whatever happened to that?

Actually, I ran it normally a few dozen times, but it really needs a multiplayer test, and you did kinda volunteer, so...

Meanwhile... Gotta beat this wyrm into submission. (Why does everything sound like an innuendo right now...)

I don't like being referred to as a dog, and would have had far more interest if you had sent it to me yourself.

Blah, damned lazy cat.

I needed to get Oyster the alpha pack anyways, he's got more work involved than Tundra, and since it's a multiplayer test, and since he was always your source before, and I dunno when I'll be able to play myself... Sorry for not showering you with personal attention!

Actually need this Wyrm tested too, but I need to tweak it a bit yet and stick in the final damage numbers. There maybe issues with multiple players and the volcanic quake.

 

[Thothie]

Also, this map needs music...

...What tracks would you suggest for combat and idle music, among those we have?

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Lanethans "Northern Lights" isn't used enough, so that's what I'd use. Maybe use "As Time Crumbled (You Slipped Away)" in the caves with the dwarves. I think you should avoid using combat music outside of special encounters like bosses or minibosses, because it winds up switching back and forth abruptly a lot.

 

[Thothie]

Hrmmm... Should I increase the cooldown time on combat music to maybe 30 seconds, instead of 15? I thought we beat this thing down to the point where it wasn't doing that, or at least I've had the volume too low to notice.

It does kinda do that in certain encounters if the mobs are really spaced out though. Too bad we don't have a cross fade feature - well, and the music to go with.

Grrr... Which MP3's are those? Most of mine are stripped of ID3 tags, and I canna remember which be which...

(edit: "As Time Crumbles" is mscave.mp3, got that one...)