INFO Ye Thread of XP Balancing
- Thread starter Thothie
- Start date
Phosphorcracker
New Adventurer
As you may know there are 2 maps that are giving hilarious amounts of exp. I dont mean a slight unbalance its just stupid how much exp some mobs give compared to how easy/hard they are to beat. I guess you already know wich maps i mean:
orc_for, 50k exp from fire djinn in less than 5minutes, scales with a second player to 200kish.
phobia, kodiak alone up to 200k + Cethin 100k-150k depending on how much dmg you deal and if the bandits leech, + the exp from a lesson if you help the bandits, in like 10-15min SOLO !
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/7656 ... 2954339170
A screenshot from the exp reached by just grinding kodiak to dust.
Suggestions how to fix that:
orc_for, Orichalcon aka TheOysterHippopotami told me that you might put a key on top of the skelly tower so you have to beat that in order to open the door to the fire djinn, I think thats a great idea but that would still allow to skip half the map, maybe make it 2 keys and put one to the orcs behind the poison archers ? In addition to that id still consider a slight buff to the fire djinn. I personally think that he could use a slight hp increase as ice weapons just tear right through him and his dmg is non existant. I like to see his dmg buffed in a mix of fire/slash dmg so he can deal a fair amount of dmg that you can mitigate by a fire resist potion or phoenix armor, helm of fire resistance, etc. Also maybe add another Boss up to 1k HP limit that just doesnt dish out that massive exp to tone down the farmerino a bit.
phobia, I honestly have no clue how to balance that boss fight. The Kodiak deals quite a bit of dmg but the boss simply turns into a punching bag using a bludgeon hammer or demon bludgeon hammer yielding a whooping 200k exp. Cethin is a fair deal doe IMO as she is a tough mob with huge dmg potential but added together this feels like way to much exp at once. I think you could easily half the exp from the Kodiak and the fight is still worthwhile. Or move the exp balance a bit, the Minions of the Kodiak are just huge meat shields absorbing ALOT of dmg and giving like 2k exp, maybe take the complete amount and split it on the Kodiak giving the most but buff the exp gain from them minions so they are worthwhile targets too.
Even doe that are just my two cents about it, no matter how you look at those maps, they are the most played recently as everyone just grinds exp there, theres nothing wrong with that at itself but they are just yielding so much more exp that ppl tend to grind them and bore themself over playing different maps and enjoying the diversion the game has to offer.
orc_for, 50k exp from fire djinn in less than 5minutes, scales with a second player to 200kish.
phobia, kodiak alone up to 200k + Cethin 100k-150k depending on how much dmg you deal and if the bandits leech, + the exp from a lesson if you help the bandits, in like 10-15min SOLO !
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/7656 ... 2954339170
A screenshot from the exp reached by just grinding kodiak to dust.
Suggestions how to fix that:
orc_for, Orichalcon aka TheOysterHippopotami told me that you might put a key on top of the skelly tower so you have to beat that in order to open the door to the fire djinn, I think thats a great idea but that would still allow to skip half the map, maybe make it 2 keys and put one to the orcs behind the poison archers ? In addition to that id still consider a slight buff to the fire djinn. I personally think that he could use a slight hp increase as ice weapons just tear right through him and his dmg is non existant. I like to see his dmg buffed in a mix of fire/slash dmg so he can deal a fair amount of dmg that you can mitigate by a fire resist potion or phoenix armor, helm of fire resistance, etc. Also maybe add another Boss up to 1k HP limit that just doesnt dish out that massive exp to tone down the farmerino a bit.
phobia, I honestly have no clue how to balance that boss fight. The Kodiak deals quite a bit of dmg but the boss simply turns into a punching bag using a bludgeon hammer or demon bludgeon hammer yielding a whooping 200k exp. Cethin is a fair deal doe IMO as she is a tough mob with huge dmg potential but added together this feels like way to much exp at once. I think you could easily half the exp from the Kodiak and the fight is still worthwhile. Or move the exp balance a bit, the Minions of the Kodiak are just huge meat shields absorbing ALOT of dmg and giving like 2k exp, maybe take the complete amount and split it on the Kodiak giving the most but buff the exp gain from them minions so they are worthwhile targets too.
Even doe that are just my two cents about it, no matter how you look at those maps, they are the most played recently as everyone just grinds exp there, theres nothing wrong with that at itself but they are just yielding so much more exp that ppl tend to grind them and bore themself over playing different maps and enjoying the diversion the game has to offer.
Well, the way this game works right now isn't the best. If you want to hit the level cap you will need good xp sources such as these maps, otherwise you will kill yourself with endless grinding in order to hit said cap.
If this game ever reaches the 50+ levels in skills, you will need more than this petty grinding to hit the cap, unless you want to do one map a few hundred times to max out 1 skill, which is tedious. Samething goes for now.
This is why i wanted a quest system in the game, that would hand out tasks, like kill certain creatures or bosses multiple times, turn in the quest and get rewarded heavily xp wise. This is how the game should be built for end game, to avoid this lame grinding. I don't mind playing maps for xp, but once you get everything in this game, all that is left is do the same map a few hundred times to max out your character and wait for next patch to roll out. This problem could be solved with a quest system of the kind, so people would instead explore multiple maps and get rewarded in return for doing so.
In other words i'm not against the xp values there in those maps, i'm against the endless grinding in this game, people should level up doing tasks, not repeating the same crap over and over, this simply kills the enjoyment of the game. I've had to do this a multiple times throughout the years, what kept me going for this nonsense grinding was the competition i had back then, something i stopped caring since said competition as left the game, they got bored of it and so did i in the end.
If this game ever reaches the 50+ levels in skills, you will need more than this petty grinding to hit the cap, unless you want to do one map a few hundred times to max out 1 skill, which is tedious. Samething goes for now.
This is why i wanted a quest system in the game, that would hand out tasks, like kill certain creatures or bosses multiple times, turn in the quest and get rewarded heavily xp wise. This is how the game should be built for end game, to avoid this lame grinding. I don't mind playing maps for xp, but once you get everything in this game, all that is left is do the same map a few hundred times to max out your character and wait for next patch to roll out. This problem could be solved with a quest system of the kind, so people would instead explore multiple maps and get rewarded in return for doing so.
In other words i'm not against the xp values there in those maps, i'm against the endless grinding in this game, people should level up doing tasks, not repeating the same crap over and over, this simply kills the enjoyment of the game. I've had to do this a multiple times throughout the years, what kept me going for this nonsense grinding was the competition i had back then, something i stopped caring since said competition as left the game, they got bored of it and so did i in the end.
Phosphorcracker
New Adventurer
i have no problem with the amount of exp but with the time you need to reach it. Every other map yields way less exp in terms of exp/h. so id suggest to deflate the exp there so the farming gets less attractive and ppl start to play other maps.
I am not to sure about that but the ice giant on shender_east sure aint giving 1k exp if you kill it first mob for odd reasons but other than he got farmed like theres no tomorrow...
You could also scale the exp for fire djinn with time in orc_for so ppl are more or less bound to play the map to get the full exp they want. Ive seen many mobs with time scaling already why not use the powerfull scripts we already have to "help" ppl enjoy other maps than orc_for.
Also I like the Quest idea, reminds me of slayer tasks in Runescape, pretty much go to Master get task kill X get exp for those mobs. Straight forward, might also add some point system per completed quest wich you can use to buy consumables like potions and ammunition and maybe some dedicated gear and all. A great opportunity right there.
My suggestions may be off, since last time I played this was back in early 2000's. However I have played many MMORPGs, both free and paid and each had their own problems.
Long story short, if there are bosses or minions of bosses that are so valuable and people forsake all others just to get to them, make the boss and it's minions only appear after certain conditions are met. Perhaps like someone said a key or two placed in hard spots or even better, can only be had from a certain npc, like the chief or warden that would only appear at random and perhaps after other objectives are completed like killing all his scouts or raiding party first which would anger him, but he would not arrive alone...
Once you have that key you can unlock the gate or door to the fortress or have the real boss for that map spawn some where. Having it appear would (I assume) keep the lag low since the hell he will bring with him wont be seen or felt until then. Perhaps even have all other enemies off the map to save resources incase they try to respawn again. Or make them respawn directly into the fray, just make them seem like it is the boss's doing.
Make certain bosses are just that much harder. Those legendary creatures should be just that, legends. The point is, no matter how tough you think you are, there is always someone tougher and even if your group is to the max, there should always be situations where it will all go FUBAR. And I think night time on certain maps should either bring more monstrous creatures like zombies or vampires/werewolves, and if you can not hack it (no pun intended) stay in the the relative safety of a town. Of course not all maps need be this hard, but some would benefit. It could be a very story driven element. Take it a step further and if help is not given to the villages, they too become over run, but that would be considered progressive servers and probably too much to code, yet you say you already have "nightmare" version of maps...
Otherwise if there is no fear or threat of failure, what is the fun or gain of it? And this game can not be nor should it be EQ or WoW or AC or any other game, yet it should, by sheer definition of good experience, share in some of what they do and should not do.
EQ was ruined because higher level characters wanted more content, while lower levels wanted more experience quicker. People became less interested in the background story of EQ- the comradory that comes with having to sit for a while to meditate or call in for a rogue to disarm traps and a ranger to find them first, and demanded faster returns.
The last I played it and it was before it became free, all the old cities were barren waste lands. What was once a thriving community became a ghost town. Even the monsters left for greener pastures...
I would be hunting in the Barbarian ice lands and maybe once in a while see someone become "born" only to become disappointed that they were rushing off for a "higher" plane of exsistence because their friends were waiting to max him in levels.
Also you start the game with banded armor or something, that back in the day was a journey and hard fought victory in it's own right just to complete the tasks to earn said set of armor. And that banded armor was not even all that good back then, but much better then nothing. The point was a slow and rewarding game experience. Now it's simply handed to you and other better armor is literally around the corner and a drop away. And instead of forging relationships with certain races for buffs and teleports, a lot of personal armor has the same buffs and you can use books or other things to teleport which really ruined certain classes, one in particular.
But that is not to say all the monsters were push overs due to all the new stuff, (or in some cases the older better armor now more easily gained...) just different checks and balances. But I felt it ruined the original experience. I shall enjoy revisting this mod and see all the old and new content and hopefully it still (and I am sure it will) catches the same magic it originally did for me.
Also how hard is it to rework the maps or monsters in the map? Is it as simple as changing the stats or is there a whole other process involved? Is it more just the sheer volume of said monsters you have to change that is the problem?
And I guess that was not a "long story short" after all.... my bad!
Long story short, if there are bosses or minions of bosses that are so valuable and people forsake all others just to get to them, make the boss and it's minions only appear after certain conditions are met. Perhaps like someone said a key or two placed in hard spots or even better, can only be had from a certain npc, like the chief or warden that would only appear at random and perhaps after other objectives are completed like killing all his scouts or raiding party first which would anger him, but he would not arrive alone...
Once you have that key you can unlock the gate or door to the fortress or have the real boss for that map spawn some where. Having it appear would (I assume) keep the lag low since the hell he will bring with him wont be seen or felt until then. Perhaps even have all other enemies off the map to save resources incase they try to respawn again. Or make them respawn directly into the fray, just make them seem like it is the boss's doing.
Make certain bosses are just that much harder. Those legendary creatures should be just that, legends. The point is, no matter how tough you think you are, there is always someone tougher and even if your group is to the max, there should always be situations where it will all go FUBAR. And I think night time on certain maps should either bring more monstrous creatures like zombies or vampires/werewolves, and if you can not hack it (no pun intended) stay in the the relative safety of a town. Of course not all maps need be this hard, but some would benefit. It could be a very story driven element. Take it a step further and if help is not given to the villages, they too become over run, but that would be considered progressive servers and probably too much to code, yet you say you already have "nightmare" version of maps...
Otherwise if there is no fear or threat of failure, what is the fun or gain of it? And this game can not be nor should it be EQ or WoW or AC or any other game, yet it should, by sheer definition of good experience, share in some of what they do and should not do.
EQ was ruined because higher level characters wanted more content, while lower levels wanted more experience quicker. People became less interested in the background story of EQ- the comradory that comes with having to sit for a while to meditate or call in for a rogue to disarm traps and a ranger to find them first, and demanded faster returns.
The last I played it and it was before it became free, all the old cities were barren waste lands. What was once a thriving community became a ghost town. Even the monsters left for greener pastures...
I would be hunting in the Barbarian ice lands and maybe once in a while see someone become "born" only to become disappointed that they were rushing off for a "higher" plane of exsistence because their friends were waiting to max him in levels.Also you start the game with banded armor or something, that back in the day was a journey and hard fought victory in it's own right just to complete the tasks to earn said set of armor. And that banded armor was not even all that good back then, but much better then nothing. The point was a slow and rewarding game experience. Now it's simply handed to you and other better armor is literally around the corner and a drop away. And instead of forging relationships with certain races for buffs and teleports, a lot of personal armor has the same buffs and you can use books or other things to teleport which really ruined certain classes, one in particular.
But that is not to say all the monsters were push overs due to all the new stuff, (or in some cases the older better armor now more easily gained...) just different checks and balances. But I felt it ruined the original experience. I shall enjoy revisting this mod and see all the old and new content and hopefully it still (and I am sure it will) catches the same magic it originally did for me.
Also how hard is it to rework the maps or monsters in the map? Is it as simple as changing the stats or is there a whole other process involved? Is it more just the sheer volume of said monsters you have to change that is the problem?
And I guess that was not a "long story short" after all.... my bad!
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