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I'm running a second server... I've got a AMD Turion laptop that I'm taking back due to some shortcomings - meantime it'll run the second MSC server, but under Vista (not worth my time to format a laptop I'm returning in a few days).
Apparently AMXmodX votemap doesn't work under Vista, but AMX2006's does, so said server will be running ye old AMX (modX for MSC is buggy as **** anyways). I want to put ultra-vote on it, but dunno if I can with that revision.
Give me a heads up if there's any problems with it. (It's the one on the 27016 port) [ thothie.game-host.org:27016 ]
Apparently AMXmodX votemap doesn't work under Vista, but AMX2006's does, so said server will be running ye old AMX (modX for MSC is buggy as **** anyways). I want to put ultra-vote on it, but dunno if I can with that revision.
Give me a heads up if there's any problems with it. (It's the one on the 27016 port) [ thothie.game-host.org:27016 ]
@Thothie:
Are the sprites consolidated? Let me explain;
A fire shaman launches his fireball attack, which hits, and sends out sparks.
^ ^ ^
One flame sprite fireball sprite ~10 spark sprites
If I am assuming correctly, this equates to one default edict(His hand on fire), one launch edict (the fireball), and about 10 edicts for a visual AoE effect.
Can we not lump the sprites from the third part into one single file? And if so, will that only count as one edict as opposed to 10?
Another example that could potentially rape edicts: the fire wall.
I see several instances where we could consolidate sprites and save our poor poor edicts, spells that, if consolidated, could remove tons of map crashes, like wicard(Fire Giant, Voldar, MALDORA with his fuxing chain lightning[probably cannot be helped since each bolt has to hit someone]).
These sprites take up edicts to the point that it starts steeling from important things, like glow. We can also consolidate our inventory, and if we so choose to do that, I could probably handle it, as those basic sprites are essentially edited through the same process as skins are.
Are the sprites consolidated? Let me explain;
A fire shaman launches his fireball attack, which hits, and sends out sparks.
^ ^ ^
One flame sprite fireball sprite ~10 spark sprites
If I am assuming correctly, this equates to one default edict(His hand on fire), one launch edict (the fireball), and about 10 edicts for a visual AoE effect.
Can we not lump the sprites from the third part into one single file? And if so, will that only count as one edict as opposed to 10?
Another example that could potentially rape edicts: the fire wall.
I see several instances where we could consolidate sprites and save our poor poor edicts, spells that, if consolidated, could remove tons of map crashes, like wicard(Fire Giant, Voldar, MALDORA with his fuxing chain lightning[probably cannot be helped since each bolt has to hit someone]).
These sprites take up edicts to the point that it starts steeling from important things, like glow. We can also consolidate our inventory, and if we so choose to do that, I could probably handle it, as those basic sprites are essentially edited through the same process as skins are.
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Temporary effects don't seem to use up enough edicts to be alarming. I think mapped in effects, like lots of sprites, do though. Add those together and you get errors (See torches + maldora chain lightning in wicardoven).
My goal was to combine all the inventory sprites, but that deals with our media limit, not edicts. If we could make the inventory system go off of a frame of a sprite frame, instead of a file (sounds easy in theory), we could combine all the inventory sprites into one animated sprite and save a huge load of the media limit. This would also allow for unlimited* inventory sprites (like a distinct one for each item).
*unlimited in MS:C terms = until things start fuxing up and we need two or more consolidated files (see armor and weapons).
My goal was to combine all the inventory sprites, but that deals with our media limit, not edicts. If we could make the inventory system go off of a frame of a sprite frame, instead of a file (sounds easy in theory), we could combine all the inventory sprites into one animated sprite and save a huge load of the media limit. This would also allow for unlimited* inventory sprites (like a distinct one for each item).
*unlimited in MS:C terms = until things start fuxing up and we need two or more consolidated files (see armor and weapons).
Well, take a map like Ara for example, when there are about five fire shamans attacking at once. It might not crash the map, but it will sure as hell slow it down to a crawl frame wise.
I say if we are getting no free edict errors, we might as well try to scrounge up every edict we can...Every little bit helps
I say if we are getting no free edict errors, we might as well try to scrounge up every edict we can...Every little bit helps
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I don't know that that's an edict problem so much as a processing problem. Edicts are just spaces of memory that are allocated by basic HL dlls, or so I understand. There are a few things we could do to slow down the edict problem, and I think Thraxis has been researching.
If I could figure out how to "give edicts back", I could help the problem a bit by making map entities give their edicts back when they're done (Like, make msarea_monster_spawn, or whatever it is, to give its edict back when it's done spawning)
Of course, if we had some way of counting edicts (don't think it would be too hard to figure it out, but it's still reasearch and time that.. I dun wanna do/waste ;-)), we could send the edict count to the scripts and let tell monsters and other things not to use up edicts when the limit is close to being reached. (Thothie's idea, not mine)
If I could figure out how to "give edicts back", I could help the problem a bit by making map entities give their edicts back when they're done (Like, make msarea_monster_spawn, or whatever it is, to give its edict back when it's done spawning)
Of course, if we had some way of counting edicts (don't think it would be too hard to figure it out, but it's still reasearch and time that.. I dun wanna do/waste ;-)), we could send the edict count to the scripts and let tell monsters and other things not to use up edicts when the limit is close to being reached. (Thothie's idea, not mine)
As MiB said I have been researching this issue. Not even fixing it yet and getting headaches from searching through all the same stuff everytime I get back to the issue and still coming up with nothing deffinite.
Even after contacting one of the best amateur coders I know, all his tips were at best minimal. Since we place so much emphasis on effects (like spells and such) versus other games on the half-life engine (NS,CS, etc) our edict count is going to be higher.
I've only come into one situation one on game (not even on HL engine) that has been able to (for a minor number of people) recycle edicts to become useable again. After searching further into it, I came to a dead end with all but 2 - 3 people saying it didn't work still.
I'm really starting to think for now we will just have to cut back bit by bit on effects until we can find something deffinite on either A) How to raise our edict limit (which is supposedly possible to a point but noone has been saying how) or B) Recycle edicts that have been used up.
I plan on dedicating more time tomorrow into looking into the problem and maybe find a lead so we can start after patch A of next month working upon said lead.
Until then my only suggestions are for mappers to cut back on loads effects, as any sprite, entity or model will take up edicts causing a map to become more unstable.
Even after contacting one of the best amateur coders I know, all his tips were at best minimal. Since we place so much emphasis on effects (like spells and such) versus other games on the half-life engine (NS,CS, etc) our edict count is going to be higher.
I've only come into one situation one on game (not even on HL engine) that has been able to (for a minor number of people) recycle edicts to become useable again. After searching further into it, I came to a dead end with all but 2 - 3 people saying it didn't work still.
I'm really starting to think for now we will just have to cut back bit by bit on effects until we can find something deffinite on either A) How to raise our edict limit (which is supposedly possible to a point but noone has been saying how) or B) Recycle edicts that have been used up.
I plan on dedicating more time tomorrow into looking into the problem and maybe find a lead so we can start after patch A of next month working upon said lead.
Until then my only suggestions are for mappers to cut back on loads effects, as any sprite, entity or model will take up edicts causing a map to become more unstable.
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Thraxis said:
You should post all of the webpages that you have looked at.
Google is your friend. Just type in No Free Edicts, Free Edicts, etc.
I've done just about every combination of something that has to do with edicts an gone through the first ten pages, noted every time the word edict was mention, and read the surrounding type. Until I find something that says "HEY, HERE IS HOW YOU FIX IT LULZ" I don't think any page so far is post worthy. Everything I find and think of however, is pretty much forwarded to MiB, and conversed about with 1 or more of my guild members who are for the most part all informed about edicts, their use, and the problem we run into.
I do promise if I find something that is worthy of posting, that it WILL be posted and I will do my best to keep searching for something that is mentionable.
I've done just about every combination of something that has to do with edicts an gone through the first ten pages, noted every time the word edict was mention, and read the surrounding type. Until I find something that says "HEY, HERE IS HOW YOU FIX IT LULZ" I don't think any page so far is post worthy. Everything I find and think of however, is pretty much forwarded to MiB, and conversed about with 1 or more of my guild members who are for the most part all informed about edicts, their use, and the problem we run into.
I do promise if I find something that is worthy of posting, that it WILL be posted and I will do my best to keep searching for something that is mentionable.
Actually very interesting, I tried googling and I found this:
EDIT: Also found this
EDIT #2:
EDIT #3: I have no idea if this helps or not, but here goes. http://qexpo2001.quakedev.com/qexpo/upload/101/pr_edict.c
Code:
1.) In the server startup command line add... -num_edicts 2048
- This will enable more entities to be in the world at the same time (note that this does not edit the precache entity limit). If you need even more entities, make the number greater than 2048.EDIT: Also found this
Code:
I think the command line "-heapsize" controls how much memory is allocated to HL....I have:
-heapsize 80000
on mine, but that may be too high for your PC if you haven't got much RAM....try playing about with it.EDIT #2:
Code:
This does work as well
-dll addons/metamod/dlls/metamod.dll -num_edicts 2047
There doesn't seem to be a cap limit either I had over 10,000 entities.
By default it looks like HL engine registers 900 edicts.
When I tried this on CS it adds an additional MAXPLAYERS * 15 on top of your num_edicts value.
[edit]
Just tried setting it to 1.
It seems to reset to the safety limit so in CS's case is MAXPLAYERS * 15 + 900EDIT #3: I have no idea if this helps or not, but here goes. http://qexpo2001.quakedev.com/qexpo/upload/101/pr_edict.c
If that stuff works...I swear... I'm gonna shoot myself in the foot with a rusty arrow.
I've been looking over stuff that is supposed to help in code, other games that use edicts, and just...ugh numerous things that didn't help at all.
If THAT is all that really needs to be done...3 - 4 4 hour sessions of searching with headaches are all for naught.
Then again, I'll never have to get pissed at a server crashing.
I've been looking over stuff that is supposed to help in code, other games that use edicts, and just...ugh numerous things that didn't help at all.
If THAT is all that really needs to be done...3 - 4 4 hour sessions of searching with headaches are all for naught.
Then again, I'll never have to get pissed at a server crashing.
Well if it does fix it, you diserve some credit. You came with the search idea. I searched for:
Code:
"no free edicts" + fix- Joined
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I guess all we need is a full server of people on a high edict eating map to test that.
Just tested setting the limit to 2048 on Villager's server.
We ran full wicard oven, using light storm, chain lightning, acidic bolt, nova blades, GiB's, a few frozen spheres, Maldora lasted roughly 3-4 minutes by my mental count.
No crash...
We are now running b_castle and will edit this post after that.
BTW, if anyone can run wicard or any map for that matter and type entities while moving through groups of enemies on the map and keep track of what the max is, I'd appriciate it. If 1 entity = 1 edict, then after running wicard we never surpassed 860 (maxed there).
If we can find higher numbers, i want to see how far we can push that number on A) a server that doesn't have the max edict boosted and B) one that does, and see if the numbers vary before a crash.
With limit Set:
Wicard Max Entities - 860, 1 full run, no crash w/magic
Castle Max Entities - 665, 1 full run (through gate), no crash w/magic
Without Limit Set:
Wicard Ent count - 863, 1 full run, no crash w/magic on Rev server
We ran full wicard oven, using light storm, chain lightning, acidic bolt, nova blades, GiB's, a few frozen spheres, Maldora lasted roughly 3-4 minutes by my mental count.
No crash...
We are now running b_castle and will edit this post after that.
BTW, if anyone can run wicard or any map for that matter and type entities while moving through groups of enemies on the map and keep track of what the max is, I'd appriciate it. If 1 entity = 1 edict, then after running wicard we never surpassed 860 (maxed there).
If we can find higher numbers, i want to see how far we can push that number on A) a server that doesn't have the max edict boosted and B) one that does, and see if the numbers vary before a crash.
With limit Set:
Wicard Max Entities - 860, 1 full run, no crash w/magic
Castle Max Entities - 665, 1 full run (through gate), no crash w/magic
Without Limit Set:
Wicard Ent count - 863, 1 full run, no crash w/magic on Rev server
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5 players doesn't seem like a high player count. I wish I could join. :-/
Good luck with the testing.
Good luck with the testing.
About the free edicts
So if I understand I should be able to add something like this to the hlds.exe command line -heapsize 524288 (for 512MB RAM) -num_edicts 4096 and I should see almost no crashes whatsoever on my server. I've noticed that demontemple likes to crash a lot when spells are used to kill everything. Another map that seems to be crash happy is Lodagond-1...
Jelly, what is this all about -
-dll addons/metamod/dlls/metamod.dll -num_edicts 2047
or did I cover it in the first part of my post...
So if I understand I should be able to add something like this to the hlds.exe command line -heapsize 524288 (for 512MB RAM) -num_edicts 4096 and I should see almost no crashes whatsoever on my server. I've noticed that demontemple likes to crash a lot when spells are used to kill everything. Another map that seems to be crash happy is Lodagond-1...
Jelly, what is this all about -
-dll addons/metamod/dlls/metamod.dll -num_edicts 2047
or did I cover it in the first part of my post...
I can help you out with the server part, I can run a dedicated 6 man server on my main comp without to much of a hassle possibly 8.
also slaytanic you can add those commands to your server.cfg file, so when the server changes level or restarts the commands are executed each time.
also slaytanic you can add those commands to your server.cfg file, so when the server changes level or restarts the commands are executed each time.
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villager said:
Get thothie to host the server or someone else who can host a larger server. I could host a ded server, but I don't know how much it could take..
Re: About the free edicts
I have no idea whatsoever.
Slaytanic_pb said:
I have no idea whatsoever.
Blasto121 said:
I must correct myself, after doing some research looks like it is a start up command only... I also find that most information is related to HL2. Seems odd that it would be only a start up command... meh oh well, I was going to see what happens after changing the heapsize to 1 gig on my machine.
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Ah.. Double edged swords..
Thothie said:
I'm... Really hoping that this doesn't mean we lose Thoth, now
Anyway.. Edict things...
Be careful what you set that number to. You can't just throw out any number you want, lest you have to close every program just to run HL.exe ;-)
We tried setting the edicts and it seemed to make things worse. If I'm not mistaken, Thothie gave us some parameters that were supposed to limit edicts a while back. They didn't work either...
Well you tried with
and I read that going above 2048 or below 512 would cause problems. I suggest that you try
Code:
-num_edicts -4098
Code:
-num_edicts -2048Well latest edicts stats
Just had wicardoven crash 2x with 6 people in the server when the edicts got upto 969 and 973. However, it was noticed that the CPU spiked to 100% when this happened. Although I can't give you an edict count from before, Picadilly told me that he had 7 people in the map the night before and was able to play the map over and over again without a hitch. I'm sure the map was played the same as when it crashed for us. Each person in the server can add upto 70+ edicts, so it's strange that this seem to be just an edict problem. Thou that's what crashed the server...
The bags of gold to add to the edict count. Should try Cliecert, as that's bag of gold heaven. Unless the bags of gold is only counted once...
and no, -num_edicts 2048 wasn't used. I had problems with it and -heapsize.
has anyone seen this error - Cache_UnlinkLRU: NULL link
I got that error when trying to just use either one of those 2 on the command line for the server when I connected with my client.
This page seems a good resource for errors about HL, but not my error...
http://www.slackiller.com/tommy14/errors.htm
Edit - sorry, I should have said entities and not edicts
Just had wicardoven crash 2x with 6 people in the server when the edicts got upto 969 and 973. However, it was noticed that the CPU spiked to 100% when this happened. Although I can't give you an edict count from before, Picadilly told me that he had 7 people in the map the night before and was able to play the map over and over again without a hitch. I'm sure the map was played the same as when it crashed for us. Each person in the server can add upto 70+ edicts, so it's strange that this seem to be just an edict problem. Thou that's what crashed the server...
The bags of gold to add to the edict count. Should try Cliecert, as that's bag of gold heaven. Unless the bags of gold is only counted once...
and no, -num_edicts 2048 wasn't used. I had problems with it and -heapsize.
has anyone seen this error - Cache_UnlinkLRU: NULL link
I got that error when trying to just use either one of those 2 on the command line for the server when I connected with my client.
This page seems a good resource for errors about HL, but not my error...
http://www.slackiller.com/tommy14/errors.htm
Edit - sorry, I should have said entities and not edicts
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