Beta Worldmap Discussion

Dridmar

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evilsquirrel said:
One of my first assignments to Dridje as mapping lead was to measure and recreate the source for heras, fixing the torches with new-style light crystals. It's not the original source - but the difference between the two (aside from the torches) is insignifigant.

We were going to keep it secret until the release of the proposed "mega patch" to hide something in there, but as i don't see that happening in the near future we may aswell get this thing out in the open.

@Thoth: What ever happened to it?
 

Thothie

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Eh... I have a HerasSource.rmf dated August 2008, and a heras2.rmf dated January 2007... Not sure which is the one Foamy is refering to here anymore, but surely one of them be it.

I hadn't thought of risking applying them until J-M came out with Riverwind, so we could setup a new transition - but I dun think he's ever gonna.

PS. Hopefully more alpha tests for Umulak later today...
 

Thothie

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Updated top page to conform to NOV2011a. Please inform me if I missed anything... (Off hand I notice I have Oceancrossing mislabeled as external, which I've fixed in the source, but I'll wait until someone posts up another error before uploading again.)

Note that this map is not to scale nor does it represent even relative positions well (nor has any previous version of it, really). The fact that some of these maps run underneath each other makes that difficult to represent well in a single image. Primary purpose is to clearly depict map connections for navigation purposes. I'm considering setting up a PDF with detail description pop-ups for individual locations that may even allow a multi-layered approach.

edit: And yes, I also forgot Bloodshrine - ironic, given who kinda pushed me into getting off my ass for this long overdue map update.
 

Fegged

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Since you haven't added bloodshrine,it seems nothing leads to phlames too :oldshock:
 

Thothie

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Phlames is on the disconnected list - dun think anything connects to it... Been considering tossing it into that mscave's semi-hidden red-fang transition though. Bloodshrine is, similarly, disconnected, but like I said, I forgot to stick it on the list...

Hoping to find another error before I re-upload another broken version.
 

Fegged

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Thothie said:
Phlames is on the disconnected list - dun think anything connects to it... Been considering tossing it into that mscave's semi-hidden red-fang transition though. Bloodshrine is, similarly, disconnected, but like I said, I forgot to stick it on the list...

Hoping to find another error before I re-upload another broken version.
Cal planned on putting phlames trans at the sfor door (at the lava area by the bridge)
If i'm mistaken Cal then say it :d
 

zeus9860

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I see 3 things...

1) Idemarks tower -> Idemarks tower 2? I thought melanion ruins would be connected to idemarks tower from what some people told me... I could be mistaking though.

2) i see some maps displayed with the wrong difficulty in that worldmap.
Examples:
-nashalarath is nowhere close to being an epic map in terms of difficulty, ingame it displays lvl 30-40 in range, so actually putting at 30 in the worldmap should make more sense.
-currently "epic difficulty" released maps imo are: the_wall, the_wall2, sorc_villa, shad_palace, lodagond-4 and perhaps umulak/bloodshrine.
-phlames is a self adjusting map, so the difficulty it has right now doesn't suit it for the type of map it is.
-islesofdread2 is considered epic? Old_helena is harder than that map and yet its lower difficulty... Only problem with it might be guiding yourself through the map, but that's it.

3) There are 2 versions of islesofdread2, shouldn't there be something displaying each of them?

This might be all i have to say for now.



Rideon said:
Cal planned on putting phlames trans at the sfor door (at the lava area by the bridge)

Yes, this is true. But there were quite a few people who didn't like the sound of that back then...
 

jon50559

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Melanion Ruins will NOT be connected to idemarks_tower. In idemarks_tower there is an implied transition to a second map, hence the presence on the map.
 

Caluminium

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Eh, just put phlames where you want, it's only a transition anyways and I'm pretty sure 90% of the people who would go to phlames would do so by votemap.

At the moment I'm working on a new map called Phobia Stronghold - "An insecure stronghold used by the Kharaztorant to perform experiments on those within." and you start off inside a prison cell, I guess that you could votemap into there or when you fail something such as foutpost you would get thrown in there, no ideas for the transition yet though.
 

Thothie

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Rideon said:
Cal planned on putting phlames trans at the sfor door (at the lava area by the bridge)
If i'm mistaken Cal then say it :d
Woops... I missed that post, or I woulda done it. :\

Sucks, adding size to the betapack just for transitions - but that'd have to be the case either way.

I think the glowy red jaws at mscave fit it a bit better - although, either way, the fact that you have to break through a wall to get into warrens proper, suggests there shouldn't be a door or marker for it, but you instead snuck in via a natural cave the cult was unaware of. On the other hand, there's no manufactured entrance to be found once you're inside either so... Ummm... Damn logic. How do those poor flaming bastards get in?

zeus9860 said:
I thought melanion ruins would be connected to idemarks tower from what some people told me... I could be mistaking though.
Eh... No. If Idemark's tower had been in Melanion during the fall, it woulda been the first thing turned into a pancake, no doubt. Assuming more fortress of solitude scenario for Apostle holdings - rather than smack in the middle of the city.

zeus9860 said:
-nashalarath is nowhere close to being an epic map in terms of difficulty, ingame it displays lvl 30-40 in range, so actually putting at 30 in the worldmap should make more sense.
Hrmm... Mayhaps... I shall see about tweaking that up a bit. I think Bloodshrine is barely in V.Hard range though. (Granted, there are no "epic" level maps in game yet, just the concept ones.)

zeus9860 said:
-phlames is a self adjusting map, so the difficulty it has right now doesn't suit it for the type of map it is.
It's adjustment range is very narrow... Like 35-45 (min level remains the same, really, just increases to deal with more players). Puts it soundly in v.hard. Similar situation with Tundra.

zeus9860 said:
-islesofdread2 is considered epic? Old_helena is harder than that map and yet its lower difficulty... Only problem with it might be guiding yourself through the map, but that's it.
True, will fix.

zeus9860 said:
3) There are 2 versions of islesofdread2, shouldn't there be something displaying each of them?
Eh, the older version is only there for special use (ie. stability), and it is true it's a tad easier... I forgot about it, but I'll stick it in the new section I made for special maps.

Edit: Alright, updated top page with this one.
 

Hakariaki

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It says Catcombs (catacombs?) is unconnected But there is a transit on the map that connects to Caverns of frost
 

Thothie

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Shahz... That's true, isn't it... :\ Hrmmm... Maybe I'll update again tomorrow.
 

Caluminium

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Thothie said:
Rideon said:
Cal planned on putting phlames trans at the sfor door (at the lava area by the bridge)
If i'm mistaken Cal then say it :d
Woops... I missed that post, or I woulda done it. :\

Sucks, adding size to the betapack just for transitions - but that'd have to be the case either way.

I think the glowy red jaws at mscave fit it a bit better - although, either way, the fact that you have to break through a wall to get into warrens proper, suggests there shouldn't be a door or marker for it, but you instead snuck in via a natural cave the cult was unaware of. On the other hand, there's no manufactured entrance to be found once you're inside either so... Ummm... Damn logic. How do those poor flaming bastards get in?

Haha yeah.. I think there is only one door used for detail. I was pretty much practicing my mapping and learning from my mistakes when I made phlames, considering it is my first map ever.

Here are the transition pictures in the PM I sent you in far July;

The transition is made for the sfor one, but if you want I can edit the .rmf to change the looks of it for the mscave red tooth transition.

sfor_to_future01.jpg
qRNbW.png
 

Thothie

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Drat, didn't notice that door... I'll see about arranging that in the next patch... Maybe I'll see if I can squeeze in a section for "currently disconnected w/ planned connections" for maps like Catacombs and The Wall.

I also had a pregnant thought that I could change that self-adjusting "Outie Key", so that the top half of the outline color represented the max level, and the bottom the minimum - rather than this CMD rainbow thing.
 

Thothie

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Okies, one more update, at top page and yonder.

Still got Phlames disconnected, as trying to conform to NOV2011a here. Probably fix that next patch.
 

Thothie

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About the blue and in development bits (for mappers, in no particular order):

Caverns of Frost: Pretty much what it says - these caverns actually run all over the north - as far west as the mountains near Hunderswamp and as far east as the Tundra, so several consecutive maps are viable, while any single map should have several connections. The visual theme's probably not too different than CATacomb's ice section, but with a lot of larger caves and domes, perhaps interspersed with some mystery ruins. The magical nature of the perma-frost makes mining impossible, but the dwarves may have some expeditions in the lower bits, where the lava flows warm things up some. There are rumors of great ice wyrms, slowly making yet more tunnels, on behalf of their long dead masters. (35+)

Frozen Forest (Eswen Hathelon): This forest is full of trees so petrified from cold that they appear to be made of translucent ice. Lots of fancy crystal structures. Possibly some caves and ruins. Remains of elves frozen forever in battle. (40+)

East Shender: Here, the frozen forest begins to thaw, some, though it's still bloody cold. West Shender is an optional extension - where things begin to thaw a bit more, and life is a bit easier, perhaps another Eshu encampment lies hereabout. (30+)

The Bleak: Really nasty frozen wasteland. No trees - everything's been blasted flat by the magically charged ice storms. Recommending a round-about vertical run, to squeeze in as much action as possible, although extensive plains wrought with complex caves would work just as well. (40+)

The Observatory: This is a sacred tower, where the elves, supposedly, once communed with the gods themselves. The tower has been sealed since the end of The Time of Stone. It consists of several levels of puzzle maps (at least 5), each focusing on a particular theme, interspersed with battles involving mini-boss monsters and swarms. Setup by Felewyn to test would-be apostles, each level is in an extra-dimensional space, and physics are kinda out the window, so you can go wild here, but it's heavy entity work.

Riverwind & Goldmoon: Series of wilderness maps leading up to an isolated town, based on early work by Crow. (15-25 or Self-adjusting)

Isles of Dread: Got room for more... The way they are currently connected, one is required to go through 1&2 to reach 3, so presumably, they will be progressively more difficult. (35+)

Aluhandra West: More desert, broken up into at least two more maps, running from the front entrance of Wicard Oven, to the front entrance of Shadahar Palace (inaccessible from that side due to collapse) and the villa. Lots of desert canyons and cave to hide all sorts of nasties in. Somewhere, either within or connected to one of these maps is the tiny village of Sundale, which is planned to have a sort of tower defense mini-game, requiring the players to team up with Shadahar Orcs in order to save the village from an ancient magical threat. (35+)

Kray Eldorad (Maybe being worked on by Trempler): Ye elven Capital. Buildings representing the pinnacle of orderly magic and majesty, hosting a benign white dragon. Contains at least one connection to the ruins beneath. (mostly safe zone)

Eswen Sylen: The lush, bright forest surrounding Kray Eldorad. Eshu settlements hidden here abouts. Possibly connections to the Melanion ruins beneath. There's a few large forest beasts wandering about, but the Eshu should be friendly to most, so it is actually largely safe zone.

Melanion Ruins (currently being worked on by Jon): The rather extensive ruins of the former elven capital, most of which remain underground, run from under the new capital and areas surrounding, as far out as Bloodrose.

Hunderswamp (currently being worked on by Sgt Rehab - I hope): Swamp. Really nasty swamp. Possibly also the remains of an ancient tribe of Borsh - pre-cursors to the Shadahar, no doubt gone feral in this harsh environment. Connects to mountains to the north. (35+)

Longroot: A swampy forest so thick it prevents further travel to the west. This is, effectively, a massive extension to Hunderswamp, though probably higher level. (40+)

The Sunken Ruins of Adel (NEW!): There are, amongst the various lore bits, five separate explanations as to how this city fell, as well as two explanations of who lived there. After discussing it with some fellow devs... To straighten this out, we're merging this with some other Lor Malgoriand related lore, and making this the city that he flooded over so badly, that it never rose again. It was once the finest coastal Elven city, though it was taken from the first human empire at the dawn of the Crystal Aeon, some thousand years before, when it was the capital thereof, so the architecture maybe mixed (kinda compromising between the two origin explanations and giving the mappers more options). You wanted a huge underwater map? Well here ya go. (30+/SA)

Thunderplains: Network of desolate plains and valleys where few dare tread. Likely reserved for the future 50+ crew.

The Palace of Shae'ha'deed (spelling seems to vary): Lor Malgoriand's former palace... Don't worry about this place until the level cap gets to at least 55.

The Frozen Tear: This map is, similarly, nearly beyond the current power curve. It consists of a crystal castle, forged by Loreldian magic, and is the new home of the Dragon Rhudeanlorat. (50+)

Underkeep (Oyster has his hands on this ATM): This extension to Gate City consists of some underground rivers and a large arena, where the dwarves taunt the losers of underground wars. We have the source for everything but the arena - although we have some bits that can be retextured for use with that as well.

Verath: A hive of scum and villainy, likely involving several localized errand style quests, and perhaps some other intrigue. See the WIP section.

The Wall (east): The series of elven fortresses continues all the way to the mountains that make up Bloodrose Valley. (35+)

Shrinkspell: Map is done, brushwise, now it's down to rather complex scripting and redoing the entities.

Sewer of Ride: Thothie's pet project for when he gets in that "f*ck you I wanna map" mood. (Source available to the curious.) Plan is to setup a wide range of self adjusting beasties over three visually distinct areas, connected by the ancient Loreldian sewers that run underneath Edana, and all the way up to Mscave.

Hall of Deralia: Map is done, and is now down to rather complex scripting... However, there's no source for this particular map. There's a bit or two that I'd like to remove, and the alternative means covering the bits up with clunky models and ent-copied clips. If someone wanted to remake this map based on the BSP, that'd be quite helpful.

For the most part, any one of these can be extended into multiple maps, if one were so inclined.
 

zeus9860

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Ah, was about to question about the sunken ruins of edel...

EDIT
Ok, after reading all that i got 2 questions:

1) What are you planning to do when the game gets higher lvl caps? Reaching lvl 45 right now is an v. insane grind so i'm wondering what will you do for lvl 50 and 55 caps (which would likely be impossible without proper experience maps and quests).

2) What's Shrinkspell all about? Heard of it a few times but i have no clue what it is yet.
 

Dridmar

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Hall of Deralia: Map is done, and is now down to rather complex scripting... However, there's no source for this particular map. There's a bit or two that I'd like to remove, and the alternative means covering the bits up with clunky models and ent-copied clips. If someone wanted to remake this map based on the BSP, that'd be quite helpful.

Send it my way, I could attempt it.
 

Thothie

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zeus9860 said:
1) What are you planning to do when the game gets higher lvl caps? Reaching lvl 45 right now is an v. insane grind so i'm wondering what will you do for lvl 50 and 55 caps (which would likely be impossible without proper experience maps and quests).
Yeaah.... Remember when we said that about 30? (Or 20, for that matter?) Even at this meager pace, we'll get there... End plan is 60, in any case.

zeus9860 said:
2) What's Shrinkspell all about? Heard of it a few times but i have no clue what it is yet.
Killing Keledros, under certain circumstances (ie. outclassing him horribly), will result in the usual reward, but you'll find that he's not quite as dead as you had hoped, and has a plan in store for you. The trap goes off, and you wind up shrunken to the size of mice, and deposited in a cage on a shelf in his lab. With the help of a certain individual, you escape, but must work your way through his lab, battling spiders and rats and such (not the usual type, but the variety you'd normally be able to step on), working your way across the tables and behind woodwork in the walls, to reach the cure for the spell. This, all while avoiding alerting Keledros to your escape, who is now standing about 50 times your height, and able to squash you like a bug.

Apparently, his plans are to use your shrunken selves as components for some nasty spell which he is brewing in the lab, so you'll have a limited time to find the cure before he notices you've escaped.
 

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Anyone happen to have a copy of this handy? I found it useful for understanding map names and what they mean but it seems thothie.com is down and has been for over a day now, it's not just me according to downorjustme.com .


Disregard this. moddb had a slightly outdated version, which also had a pretty background.. but made it hard to see.
 

zeus9860

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msc_wip_map_NOV2011a_revision4_full.gif

Is this what you want? (right click and open image in new tab for full size)
 

Thothie

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zeus9860 said:
msc_wip_map_NOV2011a_revision4_full.gif

Is this what you want? (right click and open image in new tab for full size)

(download: http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n56 ... 4_full.gif )

Yeah, sorry... Thothie.com is experiencing gremlins again. *sigh* Site goes down more often than Paris Hilton.

^ That should do ya though.

Think the only thing missing on there is that The_Wall connects to Hunderswamp (or rather, that Hunderswamp is complete.)
 

zeus9860

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Well that was the last version you posted here, so yeah! :mrgreen:
 
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