INFO Bug Reports NOV2015a

[Thothie]

Failing that must just be standard, wacky and busted MSC behavior.

Hopefully, if you can't duplicate the event. Do have one other bug report similar to this, from ages past, but doesn't sound like the sorta thing that's resolvable - might just resolve itself in the alpha or NOV2015b, since there won't be anything odd about the precache order. The extra precache does make deallocs more likely, but only slightly, and more likely to cause oddities on other, heftier maps, rather than that one.

Far too late now, but I'll give 02 a restart, just in case.

 

[Kanta]

Two chests in thornlands_north have linked inventories. It's the one in the orc hut closest to the orc_for level change and the leftmost chest in the WW1 teleport area.

 

[Thothie]

Going to end up replacing all those chests eventually, but yeah, do need to keep that in mind when placing older chests.

 

[MS:C community]

Just soloed lodagond-4 using just about every potion in the game.

Maldora. I got his HP bar empty in less than one minute, but since he was holding the wrong tomahawk, I didn't deliver the final blow.

After ten (10) minutes of waiting, he finally switched to a dark tomahawk. When he did that, I killed him within one second (not even exaggerating).

The math:
1 minute gameplay
10 minutes waiting
11 minutes total

I spent 10/11, or 90.9% of my time, waiting in the bossroom for the right tomahawk. This should really change tbh. The tomahawk changes should be on a cycle, comparable to the chromatic vest. Something like fire --> ice --> lightning --> venom --> dark --> repeat cycle.

 

[Thothie]

Congrats! Dunno why it's in bug reports though...

 

[Uberzolik]

I spent 10/11, or 90.9% of my time, waiting in the bossroom for the right tomahawk. This should really change tbh. The tomahawk changes should be on a cycle, comparable to the chromatic vest. Something like fire --> ice --> lightning --> venom --> dark --> repeat cycle.

the relevant bit
more of a suggestion than a bug report, but yeah it'd be nice to see this change (i also spent ungodly amounts of time just running in circles in the boss room waiting, on a separate instance)

 

[Thothie]

Meh, don't have enough in me now to figure out how to crop this out and move it to suggestions... Dunno if we need a speed run section.

 

[Age]

There's no section for "Awful and/or antiquated design choice reports" so best labeled as a bug. It's a genuine waste of time on a feature that adds zero value in a game we shed valuable personal free time wading through. If it's meant to propose a challenge then sure, but challenging design shouldn't cause agony or loathing, it should have reasonable expectations that are presented up front, rather than muddled behind layers and layers of obscurity for sake of making things "harder." (Which in most MS:C cases just stands for frustrating mechanics that remove player agency and time wasters like waiting for a certain number to pop out of the RNG so you get the right color.)

There's very good reason that modern RPG's, WoW being the best example and for better or for worse, have evolved to tailor to the working man, it's been two decades and the active community for MS:C isn't predominantly 12-20 anymore. And frankly it still wasn't very fun when I / we were.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

Icebow thread Round 3- FIGHT

 

[Thothie]

There's no section for "Awful and/or antiquated design choice reports" so best labeled as a bug.

Opinions and criticisms go into Suggestions or General Discussion. Bug reports go here. If there's some confusion as to the difference, as a general rule, if it works, but is crap, it's not a bug ("it's a feature!"). Suffice to say, we have enough of both things that are crap and things that aren't working at all, that we kinda need to quarantine one type of issue from the other.

I suppose there might be a slight bit of overlap in the venn diagram, but neither of these issues fall under it.

 

[MS:C community]

"it's a feature!"

lol

 

[Age]

Let's err on the side of caution and consider this a game breaking bug, because it sure bugs a lot of people and the gods know the existence and dire focus on Lodagond itself is loathed, let alone spending actual dead time waiting for no reason as part of a process that must be repeated with no variation between four and fourteen times (and good luck getting the first four to get the item that makes end-game content remotely approachable, all given the current playercount.)

And I'm late to the party to be moaning about it, which is a bit of a bummer.

 

[Thothie]

Let's err on the side of caution and consider this a game breaking bug

If it crashed, I might. It's annoying, it's not a bug. Just because your car doesn't go to 0-60 as fast as you would like, does not mean it's broken. Systems you don't like don't become bugs, regardless of how much you hate them. It's not as if bugs and balance changes don't get equal attention, and you're somehow "promoting" the problem (if anything, bugs often go unaddressed longer as they tend to be more difficult), it's just in the wrong place, which discourages it being addressed, and makes it more likely to be ignored as we comb this thread for, well, bugs. There's already a thread in the correct location.

System works as it was designed to work - it's just a crappy system. It's not a bug if it doesn't break.

 

[MS:C community]

Out of sheer curiosity, do the following quotes...

If it crashed, I might [consider it a bug].

&

Systems you don't like don't become bugs, regardless of how much you hate them.

&

It's not a bug if it doesn't break.

...also apply to the orc shaman in Bloodshrine? I think we both know what I'm talking about here.

 

[Thothie]

It's dishing out something other than intended, and thus a bug. If Maldora gave you the wrong item, that'd be a bug.

If you're going to pretend you don't know the difference between a bug report and a suggestion out of spite, I can either remove you for interfering with development, or I can respond with similar spite. (Say, by not having his tomahawk shift, forcing you start over from lodagond-1 if he doesn't have the one you want - would save downtime, at least, and probably shoulda done it that way from the start.)

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

(Say, by not having his tomahawk shift, forcing you start over from lodagond-1 if he doesn't have the one you want - would save downtime, at least, and probably shoulda done it that way from the start.)

interesting comment. that would cause people to hit transition points repeatedly, which I thought was a big big big no no!

...or did you just decide that applies to me out of spite?

 

[Thothie]

Yes, I had Dogg install character corruption in the game just for you, years before you even got here, cuz I'm psychic like that. I also had Gabe Newell install the model and entity limits in 1998, so you couldn't get all the random monster variety ya wanted.

Those transitions are one way, and one would think you'd votemap to lodagond-1, rather than try to burn your way through the series backwards, if they weren't - not that all those mob choke sequences wouldn't slow you down.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Those transitions are one way

what does that have to do with anything at all? If hitting transitions causes character corruption (pretty sure you're lying through your teeth, but for the sake of this argument i'll accept it) then it doesn't matter what direction you're going

Or maybe the game is just psychic and it can divine which way is "forward" and which way is "backwards" and punish players with corruption if they decide to go "backwards"?

one would think you'd votemap to lodagond-1

What does that matter? If I have to take 3 transitions after that, and then repeat this process dozens of times until I get the tomahawk that I want, that means I'm going to be going through 20-30 transitions or more each time I need a new tomahawk.

Why wouldn't transitioning 30+ times cause character corruption? Do you really think your pathetic attempts at "logic" are convincing anybody?

not that all those mob choke sequences wouldn't slow you down.

What does slowing you down have to do with anything? I thought the problem was character corruption, not how long it takes you to complete a map. You can't stay consistent even within a single post, let alone between posts.

 

[Thothie]

Jebus Christopherson... It matters because there's no way to transition to Lodagond-1 from Lodagond-4, meaning you're max three transitions, and it takes a damned long time to return the other way, as there's gated mob choke points at every turn. You can't just know a path to simply run through all the maps in seconds, running past every mob, making half dozen transitions in a handful of minutes, nor does the map arrangement encourage you to do so.

If hitting transitions causes character corruption (pretty sure you're lying through your teeth

Yeaaah... Not only can I see you coming from the future to thwart your plans, but I'm actually possessing people to do it, since I've been saying that, along with every coder, and every other player in the rollback section, for years before you joined.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Jebus Christopherson... It matters because there's no way to transition to Lodagond-1 from Lodagond-4, meaning you're max three transitions, and it takes a damned long time to return the other way, as there's gated mob choke points at every turn.

excuse me? if you have to rerun the map every single time you get the wrong tomahawk - as you just suggested - you will be going through 20-30+ transitions per tomahawk.

You can't just know a path to simply run through all the maps in seconds, running past every mob, making half dozen transitions in a handful of minutes, nor does the map arrangement encourage you to do so.

Oh!! So all you have to do is make it so you can't run through the maps in seconds, just like lodagond? Good thing I already did that, as we've already been over. So what is your point again?

 

[Thothie]

excuse me? if you have to rerun the map every single time you get the wrong tomahawk - as you just suggested - you will be going through 20-30+ transitions per tomahawk.

It'd be, on average, twelve, if I were so cruel, and over several dozen hours. Wouldn't be much above the usual rate, all in all.

Oh!! So all you have to do is make it so you can't run through the maps in seconds, just like lodagond? Good thing I already did that, as we've already been over. So what is your point again?

First I've heard of an effort in that direction. I've yet to get any sources where you've attempted that, and I already proposed an alternative that doesn't turn your maps into the chambered slog fest that Lodagond is, that I thought we've agreed on, twice now, after forty pages in my inbox and three derailed threads of this same crap - but if that's where you'd rather go...

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

First I've heard of an effort in that direction.

I'll give you that maybe it got lost in the midst of our lengthy discussion in PM but...

I've yet to get any sources where you've attempted that

...this is what I mean when I say you don't play the game or the map sources that I send you, so you never know wtf is going on. Out of all the maps I sent, only 2 out of 6 have ever allowed you to run straight to a transition:


Undercliffs: Does not allow you to rush to the transition
Underpath: Allows you to rush to the transition
Undermines: Does not allow you to rush to the transition
Undercrypt: Allows you to rush to the transition
Underfyre: Does not allow you to rush to the transition
Underforge: Linear map/No transition

This is how it has always been since day one and you would know that if you had played through them once!


Months ago in private message I offered to change those two maps so the transition could not be rushed, but you immediately rejected the idea out of hand like a tyrant. How is someone supposed to work in an environment where what's permissible changes on the fly based on your mood? I am now realizing you just rejected this idea in PM because you were mad that I was arguing with you.

Are you aware of how many times you have done shit like this to me? How many times you have singled me out and told me I cannot do XYZ thing that is present in other maps or even commonplace throughout the game? You just pick on me and tell me I have to abide by random, arbitrary rules that can never be predicted ahead of time, and which clearly change based on your mood. Do you realize this forces me to go back and spend time changing stuff arbitrarily for someone who never even played the map? Do you realize how much time I have wasted in my life jumping through arbitrary hoops for you?

 

[Thothie]

In the sources I have, all but Underforge pretty much does. At best you get slowed by a handful of goblins and in one case, one boss. Granted, I suppose it depends on which map you're trying to reach from which. Personally, I'd rather they not be turned into a chambered slog fest that takes forever, and we go with the single protection + one unlock quest "build a path to Underkeep" scheme - but it's up to you.

Are you aware of how many times you have done shit like this to me?

That's one way to end iron deficiency for all time.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

In the sources I have, all but Underforge pretty much does.

This is an absolute lie. Obviously you haven't played these maps.

At best you get slowed by a handful of goblins

do you not realize that you are embarassing yourself? in WHAT map do you get slowed by a handful of goblins? Please tell me, becuase goblins only exist in ONE of those maps as far as I'm aware, and it was one of the two maps whose transition you could rushed. You have not played these maps and it becomes more and more obvious with every comment you make.

Granted, I suppose it depends on which map you're trying to reach from which.

More ignorance on display for everyone to see. You cannot do what you just described. Aside from underkeep, the maps go in a straight line:

Undercliffs takes you to Underpath

Underpath takes you to Undermines

Undermines takes you to Undercrypt

Undercrypt takes you to Underfyre

Underfyre takes you to Underforge


In every single map there are only two options: backwards and forwards. It is ridiculous that I have to TELL you this.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]