"Coopertive" Ice shield.

[Thothie]

You won't ever see conversations like that about lesser ice shield simply because people just don't know it exists in the first place.

Would you ask for lesser ice shield, even if you knew of it, while also knowing the regular flavor exists? Dunno what yer on about here.

But yes, higher level twinkers are going to visit the harder maps with the regular flavor more often than the one low level map that has the lesser, so they're gonna have more regulars to dish out than the lesser ones. Likely true even after restoring the rarity swap.

 

[MS:C community]

Would you ask for lesser ice shield, even if you knew of it, while also knowing the regular flavor exists?

For a moment there, I thought: wow, good point.

But then I remembered LIS and IS have the same SC requirement.

lmao

@Kanta OK maybe that wasn't his point, but here's mine: blaming yet another massive oversight in the mod on twinkers* is the easy way out.

* = https://www.msremake.com/threads/my-thoughts-on-twinking.4246/#post-85691

 

[Thothie]

Which just adds to the point, why would you ask for lesser? (Although the scroll just reqs SC1, think the tome is yet another oversight.)

Not blaming it on the twinkers so much - they're just a fact of life (and judging by the exchange logs, that's still all a lot of people do). Much as with hackers, it's the developer's job to take them into account and deal with them, though it's true, there's limits to what we can do without getting draconian or banning trade altogether, which would defeat the purpose of a lot of items that are designed to be passed down. (Gods forbid we have to introduce a "bound item" system as most MMO's do - nearly did, back in the day.)

 

[MS:C community]

Which just adds to the point, why would you ask for lesser?

LIS and IS having the same SC requirement (the tomes at least then, I guess) is a rather obvious flaw in the mod balance.
If the mod were to make any sense, IS would have a (much) higher requirement than LIS, like I suggested a few posts ago.

Let's assume now, for a moment, that the mod makes any sense. Quite a stretch, I know, but let's try:
Low level players would actually ask for LIS instead of IS because they can't use IS yet.

Back to reality: the actual requirements match. This is hilariously stupid, hence the "lmao".
You win the argument based on a glaring balance issue in the mod. Congratulations I guess.

==== ==== ==== ====

Apart from the LIS vs. IS rarity (which should be outright swapped), the other thing I'm trying to say is: put a (significant) gap between them in terms of SC requirement.

And please don't blame bizarre mod design decisions like 1) LIS being relatively rare & 2) the SC_LIS = SC_IS thing on twinkers. Don't even blame this on twinkers partially. Your own words:

WHAT TWINKING IS NOT
Twinking is NOT helping a bunch of 300hp characters survive Old Helena. Twinking is not even giving a low level character access to a high level chest after you've raided it yourself. Twinking is not handing out items suited to just over another character's current tier.
[...]
WHAT TWINKING IS
Twinking is deliberately collecting duplicate powerful items, en mass, solely for the purpose of passing them onto low level characters, either in an effort to bring them to the level wall faster, or simply to fracture the item economy of the gaming world out of spite.

"Mod broken bcuz twink3rz!!!1!" doesn't apply to everything. It really, really doesn't.

 

[Thothie]

Dunno why you're defending twinkers... But yes, I'm saying it isn't entirely, or even mostly, the twinker's fault, in this case, but even if we do fix it, they'll continue to be a factor, both for this, and a whole lotta other things that are far better balanced, and don't suffer so much from being hastily added and then fubared in a rollback. (Indeed, after such a fix, they'll be the primary problem, as I'm sure the ones that read this thread are piling them up on their mules right now.)

Yes, like the hackers, it's ultimately the devs fault for the faulty product, but win or lose, ya fight with the army you have, not the one you wish you had.

Could fix it once and for all, but it'd involve something nasty, and I've always want to encourage interaction through trade, so alas, difficult to have one's cake and eat it too.

 

[greatguys1]

Conversations like this always seem to break down to, "The game is unbalanced." Perhaps a megathread (in the future, after a patch at least) on proposing fixes and actually making a plan to rebalance the game may help get the ball rolling on that.

 

[Thothie]

Meh, we have a few of those threads for specific issues (like XP), but we're kinda limited to what we can do with backwards rebalancing, as nerf drama happens, and we gotta be careful about doing things that might corrupt characters, which some fixes risk. Some of the proposed tasks are also rather epic, and could take years to complete. (And as always, global character wipe over my dead... Okay, I'll haunt ya'll.)