Dark Magic! Why Not?

[HomestarR]

Thank you for reiterating what I said homestar..... post count +1 ><

Hey genius, look at the post times, you posted your one sentence crap while I was typing my nicely thought out responce. Grats2u on ninja posting.

 

[elfstone222]

Again, if you want to be picky, it was a compound sentence containing two related thoughts that covered what you said in a more concice manner sparing the details that no one needed. If you're *trying* to provoke me for no real reason other than you're a kid and just *can't* keep the negative stuff to yourself then you'll be promptly ignored. Just so you know, I did say "thank you" as in "Well, you supplemented what I said, but really said the same thing, so it's all good" not "omg u said wut I did leik 1 min after I did!!!one"

Now taking you away from our daily schedualed flame off, a post with *holy crap* relevance!

There's quite alot I really like about the current magic system, the only thing I don't like is the compression, as in, 20 levels of SC are way more potent than 20 levels elsewhere. I like the mana system so far, but I did wish that the spells started off less potent and gradualy increaced more.

Poison cloud has gotten a decent bit better since I've leveled affliction, but the high levels spells are way too potent to start off with. Maybe make them availiable to all levels but make them really suck until you level the element up to the spells level, and raise all spell levels a bit?

Mana cost was another thing I wanted to hit on, and something else I think should be independant for each spell, and ramp along with the spell. Since mana is governed by overall sc (and, wtf, parry), if you specialized in an element, got high enough to reach it's potency level, it would still be really hard because the mana cost would ramp and your sc would be relatively low for the spell, so you'd only be able to cast it one or two times. It would still make people want to level overall sc, but allot for a *bit* of specialization, which is something I still feel would make the game more fun and diverse.

Of course this would only be possible through a new spell system where spell level is based off element and not SC, but in a new system like that if you still specialized in overall SC you might not be casting as powerful a spell as the guy next to you, but you'llhave the mana to out last them.

Just random ideas for flavor, no idea how plausible any of it is with the code we've got to work with.

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

The whole concept for schools of magic was thought of by cults in the 1600's. I am sure they aren't even the original creators of the idea either.

There is no such thing as an original thought/concept nowadays, so don't fool yourselves. Everything you see in WoW, FF, heck even DnD, has been done elsewhere before.

Good point

If you want to be pickey enough, it goes back to the beginning concept of magic on earth, if you want to equate everything to D&D in MMO's, you could, but that would be boring and D&D isn't always the best example of spells and effects, considering it's tabletop and, well, this isn't.

Also good point

 

[HomestarR]

Just so you know, I did say "thank you" as in "Well, you supplemented what I said, but really said the same thing, so it's all good" not "omg u said wut I did leik 1 min after I did!!!one"

I am finding it hard to believe you were genuinely "thanking" me without sarcasm, and you also said

..... post count +1 ><

You are basically accusing me of posting just for the sake of increasing my post count. My total post count compared to how long I have been registered alone would prove I don't give two shits about post count, but I figured I still needed to clarify that I was not merely rewording what you said for the heck of it.

If you're *trying* to provoke me for no real reason other than you're a kid and just *can't* keep the negative stuff to yourself then you'll be promptly ignored.

Why the hell are you complaining when you are the one who started it. It makes you seem like a hypocrite. You push then get pissed when someone pushes back? Oh you are so much more mature than I am.



I don't like how in the current system you are forced to level melee weapons if you want more health and survivability. If someone wants to be a pure caster, then why should they be forced to level everything under the sun in order to not get one shotted by a boar? Maybe having more magic categories and spells, and leveling them, should also increase your health pool as well?

 

[elfstone222]

Thothie changed it to where sc does give hp, but yeah, at the moment specialization is definately implausible. Again, for specialization in and spell casting the system would have to be revamped for individual elements so thatthey can be governed specifically. That would mean that as your idea goes as well as I follow, each element level up in SC would give you hp, and it would be like spell casting was it's own school apart from melee, which is what I think most people want.

To further the idea, it would be interesting if each catagory of spells gave varying amounts of hp. I woulden't go so far as to say mana should be governed by each elemental catagory though, seems that it would be a good idea to leave that under SC as a whole like it is now so that mana pool would be a constant throughout elemental specialization so that there would be a relative consistancy throughout leveling whatever you want in SC.

As for the rest of the things you said, I'll ignore them, as they don't have relevance to the topic.

 

[Lanethan]

It would be better to include spells to increase survivability, like warding spells / protection spells that actually do their job. But obviously health should go up a little... having 10hp and all the mastery of spells in the world seems pretty ridiculous.

 

[HomestarR]

It would be better to include spells to increase survivability, like warding spells / protection spells that actually do their job.

Exactly. We finally have functioning shields, so the next step would be to have functioning survival spells. It would be even better to have a combination of all of the above mentioned in previous posts.

 

[Evaan]

It would be better to include spells to increase survivability, like warding spells / protection spells that actually do their job. But obviously health should go up a little... having 10hp and all the mastery of spells in the world seems pretty ridiculous.

I concur.

It was the first thing I noticed when I took up on MSC again - I was pretty much dead beat when focusing on spell casting, which is what I wanted my character to be - not a mage. However, I eventually took up on a sword, seeing as it's pretty dumbfounded to enter a world filled with such dangers without proper defenses.

 

[elfstone222]

Depends on the level of protection and to what extend they give, if you make warding spells really good, then everyone is gonna level SC enough to get them. They would have to be pretty high level SC to keep everyone from being able to use them like ice sheild is now, otherwise things would end up just like they are now, every one getting every thing in every catagory. There needs to be some sort of restriction to these things to keep that from happening.

Another thing is, I definately woulden't mind being a mage and getting torn up by mobs my level if they got a hold of me. Warding of some sort is good, like being able to cast elemental resistances, but a mage really shoulden't be as tough as a melee.

SC specialization will be all about damage, crowd control, and support, depending on what you choose to level. Divination seems to be support, ice seems to be crowd control, lightning is chaotic and area damage, fire is damage across the board, and poison is damage over a long time. So a support caster would be Divination/Ice, whereas a destruction caster would be fire/lightning maybe poison.

It would be nice if those characteristics applied more strongly to those elements, so that maybe specific roles in groups could pop up, but we don't even have that in weapon specialization yet, so that would be quite a while from now.

 

[Lanethan]

I have always thought that we should restrict player advancement in certain ways.. but no one has ever come up with a system that everyone agrees upon, and some are deadset in their "I wanna be good at everything" ways.

 

[HumanSteak]

I have ever hated the Jack of all trades system and suggested tons of ways to make specialisation on par with training everything but Thothie likes the actual system so it won't change

 

[Thothie]

I don't like the actual system, and it will change... I just got other crap to deal with right now that don't involve sweeping changes that J-M will start multiple h8 threads over.

 

[HumanSteak]

I don't like the actual system

Sorry then :?
You know, I would be happy to get my character wiped if it was to get rid of that crappy character leveling system and useless economy... and I'm not the only one.
EDIT: I'M NOT SAYING THERE WILL BE ONE SO THERE SHALL BE NO ONE STARTING SH*T

 

[Thothie]

Heh, I want to retain the ability to train in everything - I just want to add the ability to specialize in that you can, at some point in your career, sacrifice some abilities to enhance or gain others, and I want you to be able to undo this the same way, perhaps attempting multiple variations until you find the combination you like. I don't want to restrict players to particular functions, but I'd like to give the ability to favor particular styles. (Elementalist, Paladin, etc.)

 

[HumanSteak]

I fully agree with that.

 

[HomestarR]

I will try to articulate my thoughts in the best way I can.

You can train everything, but the skill you have the most training in will be substantially more powerful than the others. So lets say you have 10 archery and 11 blunt. Your blunt abilities will be twice as effective (roughly, just throwing out a figure. balancing can come when the idea is polished more) than your archery skills. However, if someone else has 8 in archery, but 7 in daggers, their bow will be more effective than the one that has 10 in archery and 11 in blunt. Certainly if someone has 3 in archery, they will never be as effective as someone with 10 in archery, even though it is their highest skill.

Lets say that the blunt guy further trains his archery, so now he has 12 in archery. There would be a huge increase in effectiveness with archery, but the blunt would decrease in effectiveness by a bit.

I think health increase should be based off it's own stat, rather than weapon skills. I haven't thought of how it should be trained. Maybe the more you get beat on, the more "toughness" you get, and therefore your health goes up?

 

[elfstone222]

That would take pulling alot of strings for proportionality and balance, and from what it sounds like, that system would fvor a specialist far too much. If you had 20 swords you'd do tons and tones more damage than a guy who spent the same time getting 7 swords, 7 daggers, 7 spells, and 7 blunts.

 

[Jelly]

Great idea, hope it gets implimented.

 

[HomestarR]

That would take pulling alot of strings for proportionality and balance, and from what it sounds like, that system would fvor a specialist far too much. If you had 20 swords you'd do tons and tones more damage than a guy who spent the same time getting 7 swords, 7 daggers, 7 spells, and 7 blunts.

Why shouldn't the person who specialized do more damage than someone who spread themself thin?

 

[elfstone222]

I'd be afraid of the system swinging too far in the other direction, favoring specialization and making the jack of all trades pointless. I'd like to keep most of the bsice structure we have now and give bonuses to a bit of specialization. I'm worried more about the magic system this respect, and the two specialization choices in my mind for now are melee and magic. specializations within those two will have to come after the two catagories are balanced and polished.

 

[HomestarR]

Well my idea wouldn't completely make any non-primary skill useless. Like I said, someone who has his secondary archery skill at 10 will still be more effective with it, and be able to use better bows and arrows (being that the better gear will have higher level requirements) than someone who specializes in archery and has it at 5 or 6. Spell casting and all its variations should work the same way. If you specialize in restorative or protective spells, you won't be prohibited from using melee, range, or destructive magic, but you won't be as powerful as someone who specializes in those things.

I thought of something new to go with my "toughness" idea. "Mental Fortitude" would be its own skill that increases up as you cast more, and depending on the level of it is how big your mana pool is. So someone who decides to train a little bit in everything will have the time invested in it, and therefore will have a much larger mana pool than someone who has fewer but higher level skills. That way the multi-skilled person will be able to do as much damage before they go out of mana, but it will just take more casts. There will still be some benefit for using everything, but then again, there will also be a reason to specialize.


I don't like the fact that there is absolutely no benefit for specialization as it is now. I also don't like how someone with no clear direction is rewarded. If I want to be the best archer I can be, why should I be punished for not wanting to level my swordsmanship or axe abilities?

 

[Evaan]

I don't want HP and Mana to be based on your attack skills, but rather the amount of experience you've gained.

In other words, you can level your character, and you can level your weapons.

And I'd also like specialisations, and give the game Classes back, and the player the ability to switch class at any given time they want (or see an NPC or something), so they're not completely restricted.

That way, you can be a jack of all trades if you want to, or a Knight, or a Mage, and not suffer health or mana.

Mana could raise at half the speed of health, and if you don't want to use magic, you don't have to touch your mana pool, athough I've heard of a weapon that drains on mana, so mana could be useful as autoleveled.

The level on the scoreboard should be the level of your character, not your weapons.

 

[Lanethan]

Seperating the skills levels and the actual character level seems to be a good idea. Thothie's probably about ready to kill everybody that posted in this thread though..

 

[The Man In Black]

Thothie's about ready to kill anybody period ;-)