My thoughts on twinking

[zeus9860]

yeah its too hard to have all items (including felewyn set + tomahawnks set) within the weight limit, my serious problem was the felewyn shards i got since they consumed alot of time in the past to get them and i dont want them to just go *poof*

 

[littleaznboi]

When will this take effect Thothie? I have weapons on my mule character also and don't want those to just be deleted. I am looking forward to the banking system though.

 

[Tentadrilus]

Thanks for clearing things up, Thothie. I don't see why I didn't see unique and "soulbound" items as a level requirement. :|

Also...

Apostle weapon fragments (ie. Felewyn Shards) will only be tradable for other Apostle weapon fragments

All I can say is... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Now I finally have a chance at trading for a god damn lightning rod.

 

[Masterchief117]

thothie im sorry to say but THIS IS BULLSHIT i have been hevely twinked but ive recieved alot of weps from my own hard work that i may not be able to use yet and you want to put an HP req system on top of a lvl system which only constitutes more grinding to get the hp requirment aswell as level requirment. and isnt it harder to do tickets with this because yes they have wep names but thats it so unless you delete everything with the name your still not going to get all the items because some tickets have diff names for the weapon they represent such as Novablade= Volcano Sword

 

[Masterchief117]

and onother thing ther is only 1 noob frendly map if they're not givin better equipment they will stop playing due to dificulty.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

WHAT TWINKING IS NOT
Twinking is NOT helping a bunch of 300hp characters survive Old Helena. Twinking is not even giving a low level character access to a high level chest after you've raided it yourself. Twinking is not handing out items suited to just over another character's current tier. Indeed, several items in the game, that can only be accessed by high level characters, are designed to be passed onto lower characters, being of no use to those who acquire them, in order to encourage player interaction across the rather stark power-level divide.

WHAT TWINKING IS
Twinking is deliberately collecting duplicate powerful items, en mass, solely for the purpose of passing them onto low level characters, either in an effort to bring them to the level wall faster, or simply to fracture the item economy of the gaming world out of spite.

!!!
If this is what's considered twinking, then:
- The last time I actually twinked probably was a year ago
- Maybe 0.1% of my total amount of handouts, ever, was twinking
- Hemeriodius is wrong

The number of 200hp characters crawling around, with [...] a Felewyn shard

Unless you are talking about storage characters, I bet there's zero 200 HP characters walking around with Felewyn shards. Blood drinkers, sure, since they're not all that hard to get. But Felewyn shards? No. They're just too hard to get. Not even mega twinker #1 (whose identity you and I both know) would twink newbies with Felewyn shards, because they're just that hard to get.

It's far worse in MSC than in most MORPG's, simply because there is, at the moment, nothing else to do once a character hits the level wall. Most people realize this and make new characters

The only reason - for me - to make new characters (which, mind you, I already did years ago) is to store my excess rares. But now you claim this:

you shouldn't really need a mule character *now* unless you're storing up for massive twinkage and have massive numbers of duplicates of every item.

Because of the weight limit alone, I don't think it's possible to hold all five Felewyn shards and all five tomahawks on one character (because you can't ticket said items) along with absolutely necessary stuff such as: AoB, stab helm, BD, hoar, hxbow, orion, nova, DCs, litch, raven, LR, BH, PA, rune.
So that's why people make storage chars.

[...]Those who are known twinkers, or have advocated said activity on the forums, will likely find themselves simply unable to drop [...] items in the next patch[...]

[...]thus the only reason to have multiple fragments (besides to twink) is to pass them off to friends during this quest.[...]

Will those who have been condemned for advocating twinking be able to pass earned Felewyn shards to trusted people in order to complete the Felewyn blade quest?

As for those already twinked (and being twinked as I write this)... Particularly powerful items will be marked with an hp requirement, and characters holding items well above and beyond their status (such as the oft bragged about level 5 characters with AoB and Hoarfrost shards), will have them deleted automatically (roll backs will not aid in this, for they will only be automatically removed again). So twinkers attempting to destroy the game for as many as possible, should be aware that their efforts are in vain.

Sadly, for technical reasons (and due to another, unrelated, exploit that cropped up), this means that containers will no longer be droppable, but only delete'able once emptied (yes, we thought of that, you sneaky bastards). You'll still be able to sort them by placing them in your hands and re-equipping them, however, or sell them (which empties the container).

While I appreciate the warning (and trust me: I really do) there's one thing missing: a full list of HP required for every item, so people can figure out what to put on their storage characters and what not to put on their storage characters.

Or are you just going to release the patch and be like "Hey guys you actually needed 800+ HP to hold a Felewyn shard " and then watch how tons of them vanish?

 

[Mikkel]

As for those already twinked (and being twinked as I write this)... Particularly powerful items will be marked with an hp requirement, and characters holding items well above and beyond their status (such as the oft bragged about level 5 characters with AoB and Hoarfrost shards), will have them deleted automatically (roll backs will not aid in this, for they will only be automatically removed again). So twinkers attempting to destroy the game for as many as possible, should be aware that their efforts are in vain.

Sadly, for technical reasons (and due to another, unrelated, exploit that cropped up), this means that containers will no longer be droppable, but only delete'able once emptied (yes, we thought of that, you sneaky bastards). You'll still be able to sort them by placing them in your hands and re-equipping them, however, or sell them (which empties the container).

While I appreciate the warning (and trust me: I really do) there's one thing missing: a full list of HP required for every item, so people can figure out what to put on their storage characters and what not to put on their storage characters.

Or are you just going to release the patch and be like "Hey guys you actually needed 800+ HP to hold a Felewyn shard " and then watch how tons of them vanish?

Yes that is in fact what we going to do...
Get a grip.

 

[Tentadrilus]

Yes that is in fact what we going to do...
Get a grip.

Hey, how about you contribute to the thread instead of spouting shitty, pointless one-liners? Mikkel, everyone apart from you seems to know that this is a possibility. How about you get grip, son?

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Oh hey look it's another one-liner from Mikkel, who had his moderator powers removed for abusing them.

 

[Mikkel]

Yes that is in fact what we going to do...
Get a grip.

Hey, how about you contribute to the thread instead of spouting ****, pointless one-liners? Mikkel, everyone apart from you seems to know that this is a possibility. How about you get grip, son?

Oh hey look it's another one-liner from Mikkel, who had his moderator powers removed for abusing them.

Ladies and gents, this is why I haven't installed my script kit for MS:C.

And oh hey, I wasn't supposed to have moderator powers in that section, that's why they got removed.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Hey how about you let Thothie handle the answering of questions (if he feels like it, that is)?

Edit: I'll even say please!

Mikkel, could you please let Thothie answer the questions, if he feels like it?

 

[FuzzyFish]

Seems like people need to step back and take a deep breath and look at the issues:

Current issues:
-Small playerbase
-New characters that are way more powerful than they should be
-Powerleveling new characters at a way faster rate than should be allowed


Solutions:
-Removing items from said lower level characters.
-Do nothing
-*Wasn't aware of that* >.<


Regardless a decision has been made, and while it is frusterating. It is an issue, and might not be the best solution. But something needs to be done, but this hardly seems like the end of the world. But seems to be more of a band-aid fix.

 

[zeus9860]

Something came to my mind about the felewyn fragment bit. You say that the quest is done with 5 players (who obviously need the req to wield it) that need to carry 1 different shard on each of them, in order to obtain the felewyn blade we would need to "make fragment trades" between us 5, ending up someone getting wrong shards and the possibility of someone else rather than the ONE who wanted to obtain it and traded all his set with the others. The problem i see is if someone else (the wrong player) getting the apostle weapon, then how the heck can somene trade something of the same value has that in-game (seriously, im not explaining so well but my point is well visable to anyone's eyes). The only way i see to do this without any problem at all is having 5 both players with a complete set of fragments in hands that are able to pass around and obtain the apostle 5 times for each of us, but then again i doubt there's someone active in-game other than me, JM & leon (also joe probably) with a full set of shards. It would seriously be better if it was changed to "having all 5 shards on you" or "handing them out to a single quest npc" rather than having to make trades and ending up with someone getting it by mistake.

 

[Postal]

I've been apart of quite a few communities, most of them are dead/dieing. The reason is mainly because of the lack of content coming out, and some people being arrogant (oh good lord i hope Snuker doesn't read this) that punished people too harshly or without a good reason. After you play a mod for awhile it gets boring, but if you add stuff to it it gives you a reason to play it again. (TSRP for example, or even tfcrp was a nice twist if it wasn't for how the server owner was) What I'm trying to imply here is that you shouldn't be focusing on punishing people, but rather reasons for them to keep playing. The nukesilo community is plagued by the founder's hypocricy and ban happyness, and has died down because of that. and sad to say it, but i'm seeing a resemblance here. I'm not trying to be rude, but so far everyone I've talked to and seen has had negativity around this new patch and towards some people and their actions regarding this. It's been over a year and a half since the last patch, and its coming clear to me people do not want this one or like it much at all. Punishing community members is a good way to drive people away that have been dedicated to the mod, and potentially newer players since the hardest part is when you first start.

One thing I'm curious about is hp limits for weapons, since I've been helping people farm symbols I've gotten a couple spare one that they didn't need. I may not have the hp for farming them but I CAN use an fshard. I know littleaznboy, sir murdock, and avacado have fshards that they earned but don't have the hp to get symbols, would the patch make them lose theirs? Hp limits also reminded me that somewhere i read you guys didn't really like people being the jack of all trades (and of course would do something about that in MS:S if that ever came out). For an fshard if it requires a sh*tload of hp people would be encouraged to do that even more, Mikkel has 799 hp himself which means he trained all of his skills. Grinding is also a very boring way to play this game, and its a shame to really get into the game you have to be bored...

tl;dr you're most likely going to help kill the mod by punishing people that have been playing it for a long time (J-m's weapon disapearing for example...) instead of adding content the community actually wants.

 

[Echo717]

I spent hours farming with a high lvl whilst he was getting all five fshards, getting some of the extra symbols, in essence farming for 6 fshards, I only have 715 hp, heck someone with 670 hp just got one today, we all have the sword requirement will our fshards be deleted?

 

[A.M.Zinthos!]

Make special npc, he will trade half of the weapon's required level to use to into exp % in the same skill related to the weapon. Problem solved!

I don't see why theres so much argument about this. I'll try to make this simple:

You have: AoB, hoarfrost, bludge hammer etc etc
You want: PA
where to get PA? : Loda 4
what else can you get from Loda 4?: AoB, hoarfrost, bludge hammer etc etc

after several tries you finally get your PA but with all the runs you did for PA you also got extra AoB hammers shards etc etc.

What would you accomplish by keeping those items?: Lots of unnecessary weight, Chances to get overflowed and screwed over.

Now what can we do with these extras? Tickets? sure that solves the weight problem but what about overflow?: Absolutely nothing there is not a single store that will buy them, you can't trade it with other players for gold (at least not that i know of). If anyone has the answer for this which doesn't involve "Dropping in a pit where no one can get it" or something other than what I suggested in this post please do share.

 

[Thothie]

Hey how about you let Thothie handle the answering of questions (if he feels like it, that is)?

Edit: I'll even say please!

Mikkel, could you please let Thothie answer the questions, if he feels like it?

I know pissing off the developers is your primary purpose for playing this game, J-M, and has been since MS 1.0, but it is particularly unwise to irk the FN host. Not all of the devs are as forgiving...

...and while I was going to publish a list of HP requirements, your post made me realize that, yes, it aids the current twinker frenzy too much, so maybe Mikkel's assessment, however sarcastic, was correct, thus I may hold off of it until after the patch.

I *will* say, however, for Felewyn Shards it is 600, and that's the highest tier.

yeah its too hard to have all items (including felewyn set + tomahawnks set) within the weight limit, my serious problem was the felewyn shards i got since they consumed alot of time in the past to get them and i dont want them to just go *poof*

Personally, I'd dump all the Tomahawks, save the Dark one, if you have the complete set. The others have their uses occasionally, but only the Dark Tomahawk is useful in all situations. (Although, Tomahawks will be lighter in the next patch, so I suppose if you could find some way to squeeze them all on board...)

There's no reason to have extra Felewyn shards at the moment though, and there won't be a reason for a long, long while (like until The Observatory map is complete, or some such). I suspect by the time there is, you'll have gotten a dozen more. There's actually a lot of things in place to stop you from getting more than one (save through via trade), but they don't seem to be working...

As for trading Felewyn shards, you can trade any Felewyn shard for any other Felewyn shard - additionally, you can trade them for any other Apostle weapon, or Apostle weapon fragment, and by the time the final Felewyn Blade quest is in place, I expect to have all the other fragments in the game world.

But in answer to J-M's question, no, registered Twinkers cannot use the trade system, and thus cannot trade Felewyn shards, nor anything else, save keys, basic potions, and basic ammunition (which they can drop).

When will this take effect Thothie?

Whenever the next patch comes out... Which shoulda been about two months ago, really, but since that obviously didn't happen, I don't dare make another estimate. Last I heard MiB was still working on the cheat that got spilled in the FN section, and this all will add some time as well.

I bet there's zero 200 HP characters walking around with Felewyn shards.

Eight that I've managed to count in the current archive so far... and I'm only a quarter way through it. (...and this archive is a actually a few days old.)

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

but it is particularly unwise to irk the FN host.

If Mikkel wants to bring hostility in this thread, don't expect me to take it in the ass.
And if he wants to act like a crybaby if I retaliate, he shouldn't have started his petty hostility in the first place.

FYI

Edit: I never played MS v1.0

...and while I was going to publish a list of HP requirements, your post made me realize that, yes, it aids the current twinker frenzy too much,

Eh... glad to know I could help. Or something.

 

[Thothie]

If Mikkel wants to bring hostility in this thread

Pot... Kettle... Black... ><

Edit: I never played MS v1.0

Sorry... The damage and frustration you've caused this team and the previous two has just overflowed so much that it's going backwards in time.

 

[Echo717]

Apostle weapons, what are they? is there another felewyn shard like item in the works? :3

CAT-LIKE CURIOSITY IGNITED

 

[FER]

The reason is mainly because of the lack of content coming out

I dont know, but probably theres enough content for more than just one patch, considering most patches have one or two new weapons.

There also the polearms project, which is half done on the animation side; some animations may looks bad but its definitely a start.
Plus one new monster which can get submodels added for a change

 

[Molecular]

Holy crap what a thread. I think most thoughts about twinking have already been articulated so I'm not sure if I'm gonna bother, but I'll just mention that I leveled to level 33 and 650 hp using:
Dark armour
Golden helmet
Ice blade (not greater)
Granite maul
Pcfk
elven longbow and normal arrows
and no gloves.

And it wasn't a problem because there was a huge incentive to level.
When I leveled last time items were still rare, and people were contiously fighting over the best loot on the various servers (and if I remember correctly the person with the highest amount of hp was also the one who got to choose first from the artifact chest, bad system that, though).

I constantly needed to improve my level and skill so I could actually do some of these maps let alone get loot from them. And this is what kept me playing.

Being twinked out by high level players is just like buying a new game then using an immortality cheat or whatever. It makes the game easy and it gives no incentive to play. It may be a lot of fun for a short period of time but you'll end up tiring quickly.

I've done a few lodagond runs where i've been second on listpoints only to have the person on top of it give AoB to some guy who didn't do a single damage point over four maps because every time he ran into a group of mobs he'd just die. Would you say such a person deserved an AoB? I sure wouldn't.
And I'd also wager it's detrimental to the game and the content that it has. I'm looking forward to the changes next patch, keep up the good work, devs. Appreciate the effort you put into this game for no profit.

 

[Keldorn]

WHAT WILL MSC DO ABOUT TWINKING?
Those who remain, will no longer be able to drop nor sell items over a certain value. However, they will have access to the new, long-over-due, trade system, through which they can trade items to one another of approximate value. (Based on a tier system, rather than gold value of the item in question.)

Does this mean that we can't give each other higher potions, like demon bloods, greater potions of protection, and resist potions or do you mean artifact-level items?

...And does this mean that accidentally taking an item from the artifact chest (pressing number keys chooses for you) will be more annoying? (Whoops, I took something I didn't want that you do want, you have to trade for it now)

Apostle weapon fragments (ie. Felewyn Shards) will only be tradable for other Apostle weapon fragments. Obtaining the final Felewyn Blade requires five players, each with a different fragment, thus the only reason to have multiple fragments (besides to twink) is to pass them off to friends during this quest. Obtaining this weapon brings you quite close to the end-game, so it should be much harder than the number of shards currently flying about would allow.

I could see this as being a bit problematic..

Since players will no longer be able to drop, or lend items, we will no longer be able to get more than one felewyn shard, unless the whole not dropping symbols with a symbol/fshard on you thing is changed, which means that with specific felewyn shard numbers spawning much more often than others (Felewyn Shard #1 again? FFFFFffffffffffuuuuuuuu-----), a lot of players will have to delete their Felewyn shard to get a more desirable number, which is both annoying, and a bit strange, roleplaying-wise.

This could be preventable by either allowing players to get more Felewyn Shards, or by implementing a way to influence which shard spawns, like if players are already carrying shards #1, #2, and #3, only #4 or #5 can spawn.

Then there's the whole issue of who gets the Felewyn Blade out of the 5 players.

 

[Jelly]

So why make it so they can't drop the artifacts? Wouldn't it be easier/better to make it so the lowlevels can't pickup artifacts?

 

[Tentadrilus]

Good point. And from a nit-picky roleplay point of view, not being able to drop stuff is a bit odd. "Why can't you drop it, my friend? Just place it on the ground!"
"Alas, I cannot, the God of Game Mechanics denies me of the ability to do so."