Orcfor v.3

[Thothie]

The elves were nearly wiped out in the last war, and they are factionalized to boot (although the *vast* majority of them are the Felewyn standard.) There's no real settlements of Felewyn elves outside the city, though there's some hermits who are scattered about. Lanethan gave a number once, but I think I'm going to fudge it, as by that count, there's not enough of them left for a viable gene pool.

(and, again, any backwater villages in the forest are liable to be Eshu.)

There's two more human settlements in plan, one we have a partial map source for: the deadly trade down of Verath. Verath is probably going to get bumped over to the Tundra, and be MSC's Sarah Palinville. The other is Sundendale, which lies deep within the Aluhandra desert, and is host to a mini-tower defense game quest.

There's also one more Dwarven settlement in the plans, but we already have the map for it - just never seem to get around to sticking it on - it's more of an extension of Gate City than a separate settlement though. The Dwarves also have working mines all over the place. The Underdark is nearly expansive as the world above.

As for a village between Edana and Deralia - we have a name for that, it's called "Helena".

I generally tell mappers to avoid making town maps. It's tempting as hell to do (seems nearly every mapper has at least one junk town map laying about), but really, we don't need anymore safe zone maps to wander about in. If you aren't planning a village or town already in the map plan (or maybe remaking an existing town [ie. Deralia]), forget about it.

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

Alright, so a village just south of the plains of Daragoth and east of Heras... It'll be connected to the ocean *Hopefully* and I actually was planning on having it a quiet peaceful place. Up until you stay the night there.

Your nap will be interupted by the screams and cries of women and children. As you walk out of your room you find that the building is on fire and orcs are invading. (I'm thinking humans would be the best villagers) The orcs would come from the ocean and be headed twards the plains of daragoth, we could even write up a cheesy idea about their plots to attack Deralia.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

There's two more human settlements in plan, one we have a partial map source for: the deadly trade down of Verath. Verath is probably going to get bumped over to the Tundra, and be MSC's Sarah Palinville. The other is Sundendale, which lies deep within the Aluhandra desert, and is host to a mini-tower defense game quest.

zomg that sounds awesome. Is it possible to put a Temple of Felewyn in Verath and a Temple of Torkaloth in Sudendale (or vice versa) and eventually allow players to go on a pilgrimage to join a Loreldian faction?

As for a village between Edana and Deralia - we have a name for that, it's called "Helena".

I didn't mean between Edana and Deralia. I meant a village south of Deralia that was totally isolated from Edana or Helena by the Heras mountains. I mean, something has to lie beyond those mountains right?

I generally tell mappers to avoid making town maps. It's tempting as hell to do (seems nearly every mapper has at least one junk town map laying about), but really, we don't need anymore safe zone maps to wander about in. If you aren't planning a village or town already in the map plan (or maybe replacing an existing town), forget about.

While I definitely agree that town maps are not on the list of things that need to be completed, I fail to see how, if someone were to complete a town map, it would be a bad thing to add it. Having more town maps can't hurt anything (unless they are in ridiculously stupid places like the bleak), it just won't help us get to end game any faster.
I think you fail to underestimate the value of the 'hang out' map. There is no point to gertenheld cape whatsoever, yet it's the favorite map of many people. Even if a map has no real point, I don't think it should be rejected unless it is totally off the wall and does not fit with the aesthetics of the game.

The orcs would come from the ocean and be headed twards the plains of daragoth, we could even write up a cheesy idea about their plots to attack Deralia.

You could have it tie in to ara somehow, too. The orcs are planning another invasion of Deralia after Voldar was overthrown because the new Warchief needs to show everyone that he is all that and a bag of holding? They are invading the small coastal cities like Ara to soften up the Deralians for the upcoming invasion?
Is that cheese enough?

 

[Keldorn]

Verath is probably going to get bumped over to the Tundra, and be MSC's Sarah Palinville.

Does this mean I'll get to harpoon wolves from a helicopter?

 

[The Man In Black]

The orcs would come from the ocean and be headed twards the plains of daragoth, we could even write up a cheesy idea about their plots to attack Deralia.

It seems rather roundabout to have orcs sneak around your sea-town from their home in the plains of daragoth in order to go out to sea, come ashore at the town and attack in order to get to their home so they can set up for an attack. Could just be me

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Does this mean I'll get to harpoon wolves from a helicopter?

Well, If memory serves, they are about to add a harpoon in the new set of polearms. I don't know if you'll get a helicopter but maybe we can get you some kind of dwarven flying machine? Maybe a Pedal-copter of sorts.

It seems rather roundabout to have orcs sneak around your sea-town from their home in the plains of daragoth in order to go out to sea, come ashore at the town and attack in order to get to their home so they can set up for an attack. Could just be me

I do agree with this, to be honest. A better plot would be ideal. Might require you to ditch the orcs due to the location of your town, though.

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

Hmm... I honestly don't want to do anything elven... and I'm not sure on what I should do if not a village... anyone wanna help me out then?

Perhaps I could always make a map to introduce catdogs...

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

The orcs would come from the ocean and be headed twards the plains of daragoth, we could even write up a cheesy idea about their plots to attack Deralia.

It seems rather roundabout to have orcs sneak around your sea-town from their home in the plains of daragoth in order to go out to sea, come ashore at the town and attack in order to get to their home so they can set up for an attack. Could just be me

You've never snuck out your back door to come through your front door before?
- You are right, its a dumb idea I suppose.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

- You are right, its a dumb idea I suppose.

In your defense, orcs are dumb.

As for what you should do, I still think you should make a town. Another Dwarven settlement would be nice (one of those mining outposts thothie spoke of) but I'd like to see another human settlement too. I completely disagree with Thothies aversion to town maps. The best thing about most RPG's I have played in the past is the reprieve from action that you get when you enter a new town. It helps to change the pace of the game and it make it more dynamic. Besides, everyone is sick of having nothing to do but grind. The more towns we have, the more springboards for quests we have, both big and small in scale. Everyone wants extra objectives to consider while they grind and you can help give us that if you make this type of map.

Consider extending Deralia, though. The current Deralia is clearly just the front gate of the city. I'd love to see a series of maps fleshing out the human capital itself. A 'Market District', a 'Water front district' a 'Residential district', uptown deralia where all rich people live, possibly a sewer, and the inside of the castle (I've heard this map is done, but scripts are needed. Is this true?) are all potential ideas.

Edit: I come bearing great news. Apparently, Dridje has recovered an old version of his Deralia Sewer map, and has been making progress! You should probably scratch 'sewer' off of that list. But now that I know the sewer is being worked on again, I'd LOVE for you to make uptown Deralia or some other part of the town. If you guys worked together you could probably complete the entire city.

 

[Thothie]

zomg that sounds awesome. Is it possible to put a Temple of Felewyn in Verath and a Temple of Torkaloth in Sudendale (or vice versa) and eventually allow players to go on a pilgrimage to join a Loreldian faction?

Verath and Sudendale are both tiny provincial towns. Verath is run by criminals and outcasts, and Sudendale is holding on for its dear life. Could see a shrine, but not a temple.

Edana *should* have well made shrines to the other two gods (if, indeed, the temple of Urdual itself shouldn't be a temple of Torkalath, but we've run with the excuse that said temple is the result of an excavation, and the town grew up around said effort). Deralia, again *should*, have a huge temple to Torkalath, in addition to fine shrines to the other gods, but alas...

didn't mean between Edana and Deralia. I meant a village south of Deralia that was totally isolated from Edana or Helena by the Heras mountains. I mean, something has to lie beyond those mountains right?

Helena is immediately south of Deralia, and Edana further south still. There ain't much room there. Plan was, once upon a time, to stick Riverwind down the Heras valley a ways (forcing you to gauntlet your way to a reward town), but I don't think that map series is ever going to get remade.

You could have it tie in to ara somehow, too. The orcs are planning another invasion of Deralia after Voldar was overthrown because the new Warchief needs to show everyone that he is all that and a bag of holding?

??? Graznux is the Warchief of the Blackhand (although it's more of a title than a name, I guess). Voldor is attempting to usurp the chiefdom, but has no valid bloodline claim on the position, thus Maldora is attempting to aid him in his take over, hoping he will then bring the tribe into his fold. Maldora's long term goal being to take over all the orc tribes, and the gain control over the undead armies. Voldor is currently building his army for the civil war in the bowels of Wicard Oven, but as you may have witnessed, it isn't going too smoothly for him. Talnorgah of the Marogar is the only legitimate orc chief to have sworn fealty to Maldora, and uphold his claim to be the resurrection of Lor Malgoriand, so far.

Consider extending Deralia, though.

There's plans for a Hall of Deralia - we indeed, have a map, with no source, partially ripent'ed up, but it's more of a castle to handle some special quests centering around the royalty and Title registration. Pretty much all script work, now that FER made a King of Deralia model - but still a lot of script work.

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

How-about I make a test room to look like hunderswamp and see if people like my ideas... if so, I try to make the map, if not I will come up with something then...

Is this a good compromise?

 

[Thothie]

I dunno how that's compromise, or what we're even trying to compromise over. Getting Hunderswamp done would be worth more than anything else, of course. (If I had a nickel for every mapper who told me he was going to work on Hunderswamp though, I'd have enough for one pound package of Trader Joe's espresso beans. )

...The Blackhand are bloody everywhere though... And humans are more prominent in this age than anything. If you really want to do another town invaded by orcs, be my guest, we'll work it in one way or another... Better than another goof off town map, at least. It'd really be nice to see some of the world maps get done - but better to do something you'll actually finish.

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

Alright, I just need a good description of some things for the swamp Like how the path leads to the wall? not sure how you go from the swamp instantly to on top of the wall?

Also, this place is undead correct? is there any chance I could have elephants running around? :roll: (joking of course)
But seriously, some swamp monsters might be nice.

Let me work something up and then ask how it looks

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Verath and Sudendale are both tiny provincial towns. Verath is run by criminals and outcasts, and Sudendale is holding on for its dear life. Could see a shrine, but not a temple.

If that's the case, a shrine would definitely make more sense.

Edana *should* have well made shrines to the other two gods (if, indeed, the temple of Urdual itself shouldn't be a temple of Torkalath, but we've run with the excuse that said temple is the result of an excavation, and the town grew up around said effort). Deralia, again *should*, have a huge temple to Torkalath, in addition to fine shrines to the other gods, but alas...

While I will be happy to see new temples no matter where they are added, I feel like putting them in Edana seems extremely 'forced'. I'd much rather see the temples spread out across the world, rather than all lumped into one spot for the sake of convenience. I'd really like to see three seperate 'starting towns' for the humans - Edana if you want to align with urdual, and either of those two settlements you spoke of for Felewyn and Torkalath.

??? Graznux is the Warchief of the Blackhand (although it's more of a title than a name, I guess). Voldor is attempting to usurp the chiefdom, but has no valid bloodline claim on the position, thus Maldora is attempting to aid him in his take over, hoping he will then bring the tribe into his fold. Maldora's long term goal being to take over all the orc tribes, and the gain control over the undead armies. Voldor is currently building his army for the civil war in the bowels of Wicard Oven, but as you may have witnessed, it isn't going too smoothly for him. Talnorgah of the Marogar is the only legitimate orc chief to have sworn fealty to Maldora, and uphold his claim to be the resurrection of Lor Malgoriand, so far.

This is the info I received from you in a PM a long time ago regarding the BlackHand:

There's currently an internal rivalry for leadership of the tribe. Recently, it resulted in the topple of Voldar as head of the tribe by Graznux. Voldar and some of his personal guard survived the usurping (which only adds to their shame), and now seek to retake the tribe through other means. Maldora, having scryed all of this, considers taking control of the scattered orc tribes critical to his plans, and thus offered untold power to Voldar, promising to return him to his "rightful place" as leader of the Blackhand.

There's plans for a Hall of Deralia - we indeed, have a map, with no source, partially ripent'ed up, but it's more of a castle to handle some special quests centering around the royalty and Title registration. Pretty much all script work, now that FER made a King of Deralia model - but still a lot of script work.

Would it be possible to just add minor quests/no quests in the beginning and release the map early? You could then just update the map as new features like the class system is implemented. That sounds like it would be the best hangout map and I'd really like to AFK there.

Alright, I just need a good description of some things for the swamp Like how the path leads to the wall? not sure how you go from the swamp instantly to on top of the wall?

Also, this place is undead correct? is there any chance I could have elephants running around? (joking of course)
But seriously, some swamp monsters might be nice.

You would be my hero if you completed hunderswamp!

And also, UNDEAD ELEPHANTS FFFFFFFFF

 

[Thothie]

While I will be happy to see new temples no matter where they are added, I feel like putting them in Edana seems extremely 'forced'. I'd much rather see the temples spread out across the world, rather than all lumped into one spot for the sake of convenience.

Humans are the only of the enlightened races who freely worship other deities, so in any major human city all three gods should have representation, although, generally, Torkalath has prominence. Smaller settlements may not have such luxuries, however.

Been considering sticking two shrines in that area with the four horsemen that has always been so horribly out of place, with priests and quests to go with. *Maybe* start a faction system, as is planned for MSS.

Graznux/Voldor

Now I suddenly want to dig into that and figure what happened. >_>

Alright, I just need a good description of some things for the swamp Like how the path leads to the wall? not sure how you go from the swamp instantly to on top of the wall?

Also, this place is undead correct? is there any chance I could have elephants running around? :roll: (joking of course)
But seriously, some swamp monsters might be nice.

Let me work something up and then ask how it looks

We had a whole series of swamp monsters lined up (ripped from every mod, ever, so it seems). We more or less abandoned the undead idea for the map, figuring all sorts of swamp beast style encounters, maybe some orcs (possibly a lost Borsh tribe, or just Blackhand that 'went native'.)



Also have a buttload of swamp props around here somewhere. Lots of tree props and such, like this one, and functional architectural stuff like this and this.

Cacaron would likely be a separate map, although the plan had been to make it yet another underground hall of the dead, accessible through the dwarven areas. The older story behind it was a bit richer and easier to tie in with Khaz, but it does seem we have enough catacombs, so if someone wants to do it via the Hunderswamp variant, I'll probably just have it extend down into the dwarven lands, and work some half and half variant.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

 

[Thothie]

They'd melt in the Hunderswamp.

But yes, said ancient image is about of the same era.

And while we're doing 'old MSC images for no apparent reason':

I especially like "one eye" and his/her "myspace angle".

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

Thothie, those look really cool, mind sharing those with me or whatever? I was planning on tossing in mushrooms as a light source ...

So why scrap the undead? why not have a little bit of dinosaurs and a little bit of undead? hmm... actually... this is up to you guys, I'm no lore genius, just an average mapper.

 

[Thothie]

No reason we can't do both, if you can make enough room for it. You can do a fairly wide variety of creatures before you risk the model count, provided you are conservative with the entity brushes (each func_wall and the like adds to the model count as well). If you intend to use swamp fog, you'll want to go easy on them anyways, for they show up in fog like nothing else.

Reminds me, I'm supposed to be trying to figure why Dridge's water only wants to render additive...

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

We more or less abandoned the undead idea for [the Hunderswamp], figuring all sorts of swamp beast style encounters, maybe some orcs (possibly a lost Borsh tribe, or just Blackhand that 'went native'.)

wat

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

I'm getting a little frustrated with having textures good but not quite perfect. There is grass, then there is dirt, but the texture for in between grass and dirt is slightly shaded differently so the dirt sticks out far too much.

 

[Thothie]

Don't get too picky. This is MSC.

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

Got any fallen over hallow tree things?

Also, is there anything wrong with having my entire ground being triangle method thing? Most of it is flat, but there are a lot of dips for water... should I try to make as many large blocks as possible?

 

[Thothie]

A few... Jeeze, I've got so much crap here - a lot of it needs converting though... Lemme PM you a list.

Also, is there anything wrong with having my entire ground being triangle method thing? Most of it is flat, but there are a lot of dips for water... should I try to make as many large blocks as possible?

Generally, you want to stay as flat as possible whenever possible. Very subtle land tilting is hardly visible, but is horrifically hard on both monster navigation and leaf nodes. Just want enough to be aesthetically pleasing, without the need to break the map into twenty parts.

 

[Age]

Something tells me we need more variety.