Strength/Fitness flaw?

[Shurik3n]

My level 17 Wizard seems to do world walker just fine. Lightning storm takes down a troll pretty easy, but I kinda misuse ice wall on Geric...

 

[Evaan]

We must not forget about the low level players.

And are you a pure mage, or have you also trained in a weapon line or two?

I'm not saying make it easy for the low level players to get to a hgh level, I'm just saying that Mages are put to a too much high risk concidering the lack of health gain.

I'll try to level a pure Mage/Wizard and see how he fares, without abusing firing from a location beyond the monsters reach.

 

[Blasto121]

pure mage is not possible under the current system... However if you keep your base SC higher than any of your other fighting skills your HP at least comes up to a level high enough to be semi helpful.

 

[Shurik3n]

I'll try to level a pure Mage/Wizard and see how he fares, without abusing firing from a location beyond the monsters reach.

If your going to be a mage then why not take advantage of the range attacks? I'm not saying you should sit on a rock they cant get to, but you shouldn't stand next to them and get hit while your shooting fire darts. Its fun to play my mage just because I get to round around in a fight and round up monsters then turn and AoE them.

 

[Thothie]

Specialists of any sort essentially get screwed and some level for not taking the effort to expand their repitoiré, and I suspect so long as we allow training across the board (one of the things I like about this game) that will continue to be the case. Those who train in a larger array of skills, just know more stuff, and a single skill can only take you so far.

For those who rely heavily on magic and archery, the lack of HP seems more than reasonable, due to the fact that they are ranged attackers. The majority of the time, monsters cannot reach them.

What would be applicable, and I kinda-sorta like the idea of, is as I said earlier, making all skills count for all stats, to varying degrees. The specialists would still be more or less screwed by their narrow vision - but they wouldn't be *missing* attributes - no matter what you trained in, every attribute would go up at least a little.

It'd take at least a few days of loading up various FN characters to see the result of the changes and balance it out though. Many people would likely have drastic stat changes, either for the worse or the better. Since a change like this isn't absolutely necessary for the game's survival, I'd feel required to run a poll for something like that.

 

[Evaan]

I'll try to level a pure Mage/Wizard and see how he fares, without abusing firing from a location beyond the monsters reach.

If your going to be a mage then why not take advantage of the range attacks? I'm not saying you should sit on a rock they cant get to, but you shouldn't stand next to them and get hit while your shooting fire darts. Its fun to play my mage just because I get to round around in a fight and round up monsters then turn and AoE them.

I don't stand next to them and fight, but as it is now, I have to get somewhere high level and try to bolt them down as they twirl and shake trying to figure out a way to get to me, standing against the wall I'm sitting on.

I'm not saying that mages should have equal health to a warrior, definitively not. That would overpower the mage, but as it is now, I feel the Mage HAS to be a fighter in order to survive anything.

And because there are no real useful spells other than the shield (which is great) and the rat summons (which dies fairly fast against anything other than an animal) that will give you a benefit.

I'll play some more and try to get better spells and see how I fare.


Making all stats count for all skill lines would definitively be a huge favor for the mages.

0.25*level or 0.5 would be awesome, and then *1 or *2 for the primary attributes.

I mean, the only thing that Spell Casting seem to level up now, is Wisdom and Concentration (Constitution in the code?).

As far as I know, that would mean any mage at any level, would always have 7 health.

 

[Thothie]

It used to be you'd have 5hp forever, if you were a mage. To make matters worse, it also used to be your parry counted *2 for wisdom, while your spell casting level counted as /2. Meaning, you had to somehow raise parry with 5hp.

float CBasePlayer::MaxHP( ) {
	//Thothie adding 2hp per Wisdom point
	int Str = GetNatStat(NATURAL_STR) - 1, Fit = GetNatStat(NATURAL_FIT) - 1, Wis = GetNatStat(NATURAL_WIS) - 1;
	Str = max(Str,0);  Fit = max(Fit,0); Wis = max(Wis,0); 
	return 5 + Str * 8 + Fit * 6 + Wis * 2;
}
float CBasePlayer::MaxMP( ) {
	return GetNatStat(NATURAL_WIS) * 10; 
}
float CBasePlayer::MaxStamina( ) {
	return 3 + GetNatStat(NATURAL_FIT) * 2.5 + GetNatStat(NATURAL_STR) * 1.0; 
}

Since January, it's been 2 hp per wisdom point, and the parry/spellcasting->Wisdom formula has been reversed. Which still sux, but yeah, you aren't intended to use magic and magic alone, except as some sort of personal challenge.

And because there are no real useful spells other than the shield

What game are you playing?

Magic is, collectively, the most devistating weapon in the game. But you gotta get up high enough levels to pull the AOE spells off, and once you do, they more or less wind up dominating everything.

 

[Blasto121]

Magic is, collectively, the most devistating weapon in the game. But you gotta get up high enough levels to pull the AOE spells off, and once you do, they more or less wind up dominating everything.

Yup magic rocks once you reach a high enough level, if it wasn't for the fact magic did that I wouldn't be a wizard still. I still remember starting off with just using magic, man did I run around a lot avoiding monsters.

 

[Evaan]

I meant defensive spells, Thothie

I'll have to see how the other various summoning spells do. Surely, if you can summon a creature that last long enough (and I take it for granted you can heal your summoned minions?) to get some damage spells off.

A problem I see for role players is that you have to really strive to be a wizard and still train in weapon skills, without becoming a blade caster or some asian hocus pocus witch doctor, because with Fire at 17 and Lightning at 13, I was a level 5 Spellcaster, and it takes barely 5-6 in Pro/Bal/Pow to be a Swordsman.

Surely, a mage could use a dagger or such. Mine has one, but I don|t want to risk suddenly becoming a shadowy magic summoner instead of the wizard I intend to be. My dagger is mylast resort weapon for those who cannot withstand magic, or when my Mana runs out.

 

[Blasto121]

keeping the wizard title isn't all that hard, once you start gaining levels in SC you train the other skills to always be 1 level below SC so if you have SC of 5 all your other skills besides parry should be 4.

It keeps the title wizard, and gives you the much needed HP and additional mana. The biggest issues with doing that however is it goes very, very slow. Painstakingly slow, all my base magic skills are all level 26 yet my SC level is only 19, all my other weapons skills besides that are 18, and well parry is whatever it managed to level to. This brings me to a grand total of being level 26.

Being a wizard requires a bit of dedication, but I find it rewarding.

 

[Thothie]

I meant defensive spells, Thothie

I'll have to see how the other various summoning spells do. Surely, if you can summon a creature that last long enough (and I take it for granted you can heal your summoned minions?) to get some damage spells off.

Tis true there are not much in the way of defensive spells. Ya got Rejuvenate, Ice Shield (I tossed in Ice Shield Jr. yesterday, but you won't be seeing that till next month), Fire Wall (which holds monsters at bay, for as it is now, since we have no fear nor holy circle spell), Ice wall, and the summoning spells, which can be deployed defensively. The only real effective defensive summon (not counting Ice Wall) is the Undead Guardian, who is a little too effective, sometimes IMO.

A problem I see for role players is that you have to really strive to be a wizard and still train in weapon skills, without becoming a blade caster or some asian hocus pocus witch doctor, because with Fire at 17 and Lightning at 13, I was a level 5 Spellcaster, and it takes barely 5-6 in Pro/Bal/Pow to be a Swordsman.

I am eliminating the bloody title system. It's meaningless, and a few people feel they've somehow changed when their bloody title changes, and feel that they are somehow "roleplaying" in an effort to keep a title, when in reality, they are just stat-whoring specific stats. I'm going to let people select their titles at a training facility, for which they will need to meet some minimum requirements, and some will allow some special abilities at sacrifice of some other ability, etc. Titles will no longer change on their own from that point on.

Surely, a mage could use a dagger or such. Mine has one, but I don|t want to risk suddenly becoming a shadowy magic summoner instead of the wizard I intend to be. My dagger is mylast resort weapon for those who cannot withstand magic, or when my Mana runs out.

While, obviously, I would flat out recommend against restricting your skill repertoire (you simply aren't going to enjoy this game deliberately limiting yourself), if you *must* do so out of some masochistic enjoyment of pain, or what not, I would highly suggest making your secondary weapon something that raises hp. A mace would be good... Particularly good, as you can stun something, and then run away from it. Plus if you wind up getting the level 10+ mage+blunt title, it'll be "Zauberei Basher" - which is just so kewl.

 

[Blasto121]

getting the level 10+ mage+blunt title, it'll be "Zauberei Basher" - which is just so kewl.

That was the title I originally hand before I got wizard

 

[Evaan]

I am eliminating the bloody title system. It's meaningless, and a few people feel they've somehow changed when their bloody title changes, and feel that they are somehow "roleplaying" in an effort to keep a title, when in reality, they are just stat-whoring specific stats. I'm going to let people select their titles at a training facility, for which they will need to meet some minimum requirements, and some will allow some special abilities at sacrifice of some other ability, etc. Titles will no longer change on their own from that point on.

That's an excelent change!
A trainer or mentor of the sorts could provide you with the title.

I hope the levels will still apply, though?
As now, it sys 4 Caster on my character. Wouldn't mind if it still said 4.

And what the heck is a Zauberei Basher?
Sounds like a berserker of some sort

 

[ceriux]

instead of just saying four.... why not have it add up all of our stat levels to give a main level that it shows cause right now i dont get how some of my stats are shown to be a lower level then what i count them out to be...

 

[Molecular]

I agree with the Norwegian dude. I sort of dislike the system we currently have going, although a decent fix that doesn't take too much time to implement is kind of hard to think of. In any way, a person who spends 100 hours lvling his sword skill should be just as powerful as a person who spends 100 hours lvling all of his main skills.

Of course, seeing as the person who spent 100 hours lvling his sword skill will deal more damage, it's only logical that he has less hp, just maybe not a difference as big as the one we have right now. Reworking the system so you only get hp off your main skill isn't really hard, just find the common facter in all the attribute values of the different weapons and add them together.

This will of course make low lvl characters scale much more quickly.
Could I suggest a more exponential rise in stats, perhaps? It's not really hard to implement, but of course, everything would have to be beta-tested over again.

The biggest problem I have with the "jack of all trades" system we have now, is that when reaching per say lvl 25 swordmanship, you fancy yourself really glad you're done with grinding mobs in sfor, thornlands, and all those other godforsaken annoying places. But then you start off lvling your small arms skill which is at lvl 1, you have to start all over again. It does get really tedious.

I guess we're beyond a fix for this right now as it would take literally ages, but it might be something to consider for MS: source?