this might be cool with msc...

[ceriux]

http://www.moddb.com/mods/earths-specia ... m-overhaul

anyone catch that? yes it would take a lot of remapping (modeling?) but the end point of this could be amazing in my opinion =)

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

I'm no mapper, but I don't think rendering everything at once all the ti
e isn't compatible with msc...

Looks really neat, and would be awesome if we could use OBJ instead, though.

 

[ceriux]

well if you read the article, it says something about the ability to render more with less slow down pretty much. so we could have slightly larger maps even and it might create less lag and what not =)

 

[FER]

Id like to see blood spraying from bodies like in the lates specialist version, aswell as bodies getting stained with blood decals like in the engine of the HL mod "From beneath".

I think right now the biggest technical issue in MSC rather than the size of maps is the limit of models or wathever.
However this new thing from the guys at ESF means that now a modeler could make their own maps with just MS3D

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

I see them talking about rendering differently, and they don't say all the map's objects are rendered, just that the map itself is always rendered. Definitely have to get our mappers on testing this out.

 

[Thothie]

You can use model files for terrain (that's basically what they are describing here) - but it can be rough on the epoly count. There's also the issue that, unlike BSP solids, they don't light properly - they'll take whatever light property crosses their centers. With folks running around with Glow on, this could become quite jarring (entire mountains lighting up and fading as folks run past). When combining terrain models with BSP solids, you also have to be careful that VIS planes do not clip the center point of the model - or the whole model vanishes at any point where the player views it and it does.

Nonetheless, I did post a rather lengthy collection of images of terrain models that could be used in the developer section. I figure they'd be more useful for trims and stair cases, and the like, as the VIS issues would be less likely to crop up.

The video with the animated textures isn't anything new though - it's entirely possible to do that via BSP brushes and custom textures - a method used quite often in MSC maps.

 

[FER]

What about that decaling models feature I mentioned? would be awesome to see both the player and the boss bathed in blood after fight.

 

[Thothie]

That I've no clue on... I guess I'd start looking at the client fx where the blood splatters on walls, if I were to attempt to ascertain how that works, but it'd be a hard code change that'd almost certainly be beyond my abilities - dunno about MiB's.

Making skins for bosses to "decay" as they are wounded, or lob limbs off via submodels, are both fairly easy though. One of the newer bosses intended for The_Wall does this (head pops off - but he keeps going).

 

[ceriux]

That I've no clue on... I guess I'd start looking at the client fx where the blood splatters on walls, if I were to attempt to ascertain how that works, but it'd be a hard code change that'd almost certainly be beyond my abilities - dunno about MiB's.

Making skins for bosses to "decay" as they are wounded, or lob limbs off via submodels, are both fairly easy though. One of the newer bosses intended for The_Wall does this (head pops off - but he keeps going).

would the ability to turn this off an on be available? im sure decals on moving models would slow some clients down.

 

[HomestarR]

Anyone that has not bought a new computer since 1995 doesn't deserve to have fun.

 

[Thothie]

I've not bought a new main rig since 1991.

Albiet, I've upgraded the main rig so much, that I think the only part that *might* date back to the 90's is the floppy drive. (Well, and the joystick - I'm the last person I know with a gen-u-ine analog, non-USB, serial joystick hooked to my soundblaster - can't fly without it.)

But in answer to Ceriux's question, if such a system were implemented, it would likely be done through the same system that handles blood decals, and thus subject to the r_decals/mp_decals cvars (ie. could be disabled on the client side.)

 

[FER]

Anyone that has not bought a new computer since 1995 doesn't deserve to have fun.

Some people were fool enough to buy (or in my case, get them as presents without getting asked) laptops which may come withcrappy specs.

 

[Thothie]

Well, thanks to the likes of ATI, and Microsoft itself having a disdain for anything with the word "Open" in it, the classic OpenGL standard is very rough on some of the newer graphics cards. Sadly, I suspect this will get worse as time goes on - so even though the next gen graphics cards may have 50,000 times the power of those Half-Life ran smoothly on in 1998, some may not render the game nearly as well as those old "primitive" 3DFX Voodoo's did over a decade ago.

That's progress for ya.

 

[HomestarR]

Some technology has limits. Sometimes in the name of progress said technology needs to get left behind. Maybe it is time for a new engine?

 

[Thothie]

It has nothing to do with technological limits. The power is there, the standard is there, and nothing has fundamentally changed in computers or operating system technology preventing one from accessing the other. Indeed, the OpenGL standard has progressed faster than the DirectX standard.

What happened, is Microsoft worked together with Sony in an effort to create a standard in which they could be sure you couldn't watch pirated movies in 1080i+ on HDMI out through the OpenGL standard, and forced it, and all other rendering libraries, to go through their DirectX emulation layers, preventing all low level access to the graphics card through the OS. This, all in an effort to prevent you from watching certified blu-ray movies on HDMI devices that might have pass-through outputs, allowing easy duplication. That, in a nutshell, is why we got Vista - it's the same kernel as XP, the only new things being the fancy GUI theme, less optimal memory settings, and the all-pervading vicious media protection layer.

AMD bit off more than they could chew when they absorbed ATI, and stripped off huge numbers of the ATI developer staff. As a result, they didn't have the manpower to work out separate drivers for XP and Vista, and instead, duplicated the emulation layer interface in XP that Microsoft used in Vista - causing both their drivers to fail the OpenGL standard miserably. NVidia, on the other hand, always being fat cats and having never lost their core team, set up their own interface with the emulation layer that bypassed the shortcomings of the Microsoft layer, while still satisfying Microsoft's stringent media protection layer requirements.

The long term plan is to make DirectX the sole secure media standard, allowing Microsoft and their affiliates to determine what media you can watch, what you can watch it on, and at what quality it can be viewed. This will also allow the company to have sole control over the OS market - as when that comes to pass, no other company will be able to create an OS that can play protected media without licensing the DirectX standard from Microsoft. Open source OS's will still exist, but no one will be able to resell those that can replay secure media without risking lawsuits, thus guaranteeing they will be restricted to a niche market.



...But yes, even without this massive failure of anti-trust laws, it is time for a new engine. That's why we have MSS.

 

[HomestarR]

Oh, MSS... where?


So if someone were to develop an OS and GPU drivers that would work on an OpenGL standard, could you be a pirate (yarr) and watch your hdmi blu-ray movies without the directx emulation? Or does HDMI simply not work through OpenGL?


A pirate OS.


for Pirates.

 

[Thothie]

HDMI works through OpenGL, hence Microsoft's hatred for it and unwillingness to allow it direct access to your graphics card in their newer OS's. And yes, assuming you had some decoder for the secure media and a non-Micrososft OS (or even just Windows XP and a non-ATI card, older ATI drivers, or anything else before Vista, and a third party player), you could (and can) easily play said secure media on unaproved devices.



It wasn't too many years ago that I had to work with a $12,000 system for a client that he intended to use as a blu-ray home theater (yes, overkill), and I had to convert his OS from Vista to XP, as there was, at the time, no approved HDMI screen he could use with his monster rig. It had to be done through third party XP media players (namely MPC). So the effort has often resulted in people (with way too much cash) from legitimately playing their media - but I doubt it's ever stopped a single pirate.


And MSS - there.