Elves or Bludgeons

[J-M v2.5.5]

You honestly never noticed that ?

I always thought "Shadahar" and "Shahaddar" were unrelated, even though the names are almost identical. But that Zahlon (not Zalon, Mr. Typo, lololol) Erste thing just rang a bell I guess.

 

[Thothie]

Nope (ye may have noticed I tend to be just "in the ballpark" with foreign names - plus Lanethan changes his spelling between documents)... Ya know, I like Shadahar so much better... Eff it... 67 occurrences shouldn't be too hard of a mass search and replace... Plus it'll make things with "Shahaddar" formally in their names slightly less likely to smash the server when they talk. (If a name + sentence > 127 chars, server go bye bye.)

Gotta a little scratch pad with most of the lore spellinx in it, but it apparently it needs some cleanup - the discrepancy is a result of repeatedly following it, rather than the existing scripts.

I also shoulda just used Masterp's speech on the subject:
"Shadahar was a feared necromancer just prior to the [Age of Blood]."
"Though his more ambitious activities were kept in check by the forces of order, that were so prevalent at the time, he built many great palaces."
"These were necropolises, where he stored armies of the dead, and other abominations, as he lie in wait for an age when he could rise to power."
"Before his dreams could be realized, however, he was imprisoned by the Xyphemox Zahlon Erste."
"His greatest palace, a hall of great majesty hidden somewhere in the Aluhandra desert, lay abandon for centuries."
"But at the end of the [Age of Blood], the Borsh [orc] tribe, having been soundly defeated by the [elves], took refuge within its walls."
"As they bided their time there, they were soon infected with its power."
"Their chief, the immortal Rungahr, together with his shamans, unlocked many of the necromancer's secrets."
"Under their chief's guidance, these enchanted orcs have become the most powerful in all the lands, and thus renamed themselves the tribe of Shadahar."
"Thankfully, however, they rarely wander very far from their home of Shadahar, for it is the source of their power."

 

[Echo717]

Borsh orc = shahaddar orc

noes I was looking forward to fighting borsh orcs in that one jungle (longroot?) if someone ever made it

 

[Thothie]

Could be some leftover Borsh in there... although I really *HATE* reskinning that model - it's a pain. >< Lanethan's description of the Borsh, however, is almost identical to the Shadahar - save that their eyes glow blood red, instead of lightning yellow. :\

Contrary to rumor, our formally bright-green orcs aren't Borsh - the skin tone change was purely an aesthetic decision... Not that they look *so* different, that they couldn't be Blackhand orcs that just went a little native, with their kewt little tiger-skin loincloths.

 

[Tentadrilus]

...with their kewt little tiger-skin loincloths.

Your evenings must be interesting, to say the least.

So many orc tribes, so little time... I've always been interested in signing up for some sort of loremaster position on MS:C or MS:S, but the opportunity never arose. If you need any help filing, then give me a bell, I suppose.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

A large contingent of these orcs, lead by Runegahr, were forced to retreat deep into the Aluhandra desert, and after many months, came upon the magical remains of Shahaddar Palace

Lead by Runeghar? How old is he? How old can orcs live for? Furthermore, how long ago was the age of blood? I always assumed the age of blood ended some 150-200 years ago, at least.

Edit: Okay, I'm posting this as I read. Forgive me.

But during that time, the magic of the palace seeped into their bodies, and slowly changed them...
...Eventually, the whole tribe was so thoroughly imbued with this power that they became the strongest in all the lands...

Don't you think this is too similar to the depth elves changing due to their isolation? Maybe it'd be more convenient to just say the palace provided ample fortification to keep the orcs alive?

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

...The shamans among the orcs were able to adapt the power as their own, and several of them, in addition to Runegahr, managed to find ways to cheat death (or at least the comparatively short life cycles their creator had granted them)...

EDIT: Should I put supply a read before you post image macro?

Anyway, on the second point, powerful necromancer's hidden fortress imbued with his power and and littered with magical artifacts isn't really the same as city sinking into the ground so population rapidly evolves.

 

[Gurluas]

...The shamans among the orcs were able to adapt the power as their own, and several of them, in addition to Runegahr, managed to find ways to cheat death (or at least the comparatively short life cycles their creator had granted them)...

EDIT: Should I put supply a read before you post image macro?

Anyway, on the second point, powerful necromancer's hidden fortress imbued with his power and and littered with magical artifacts isn't really the same as city sinking into the ground so population rapidly evolves.

Depth Elves are on the brink of dying out and their numbers decreased ever since the city sank.
They were thousands before now they are barely fifty.

Imagine Nashalrath with Depth Elves instead of Bludgeons...Basically when you kill Hashalgath you have wiped them out.

 

[Thothie]

Don't you think this is too similar to the depth elves changing due to their isolation? Maybe it'd be more convenient to just say the palace provided ample fortification to keep the orcs alive?

Oh, it's entirely possible that magical artefacts and locales may have mutated pockets of other races, no doubt. (Albeit, it's only elves because Little-G has a "thing" for elves similar to his thing for Catgirls - leaving aside that there's just not that many elves left running around.) Lack of aesthetics and logic behind the digger-elves aside, it's the independently sentient manifestation of The Lost (or whatever he is), and much more so, the portal to a whole other world where I really have to draw the line (I mean anything can come from there - even mecha, smurfs, or Dogcats. ). That threat is also more imposing than anything in the current mythology, so it effectively tears it down and becomes the new center of conflict.

Orcs live 30-40 years - which still beats out the self-replicating Goblins at around 12 to 20. But like CMD re-quoted, Runegahr and the circle of shamans that were there at the founding of the new tribe would be the magical exceptions to the rule, and the immortality they gained is largely responsible for what keeps them in power. Maldora's "enhancement" of Voldor and his shamans may have had a similar effect, but they've not been around along enough for it to be a factor. (and it may, in fact, have had the opposite effect.)

Before someone asks, I don't have any data on how long Trolls live (or even Bludgeons). They are both likely offshoots of one of the giant races the Loreldians created back in the War of Fate and before, so they might be long lived for sake of convenience. Ogres were souped up orcs created by Lor Malgoriand, and given their voracious nature, are likely even shorter lived, save for the Djinn, of course, which are all immortal. Undead variants of all these creatures is also possible.

I figure that Maldora's kidnapping of Runegahr had to be a political blow to him - but then again, given that Maldora showed up with a floating city might aid in his getting that to slide - especially with the feat of having escaped it alive - thanks to the players. Though that factor may backfire on him as well.

 

[Gurluas]

Don't you think this is too similar to the depth elves changing due to their isolation? Maybe it'd be more convenient to just say the palace provided ample fortification to keep the orcs alive?

Oh, it's entirely possible that magical artefacts and locales may have mutated pockets of other races, no doubt. (Albeit, it's only elves because Little-G has a "thing" for elves similar to his thing for Catgirls - leaving aside that there's just not that many elves left running around.) Lack of aesthetics and logic behind the digger-elves aside, it's the independently sentient manifestation of The Lost (or whatever he is), and much more so, the portal to a whole other world where I really have to draw the line (I mean anything can come from there - even mecha, smurfs, or Dogcats. ).

The elves were never too many. As for the other world its been stated many times exactly what it is...No smurfs, dogcats or whatever. Its a remnant not a fully fledged world.

And as for Iposatu...He wont influence Leann, I promise. I was planning a little subplot exclusively for the Netherworld which I may even can just to make the maps happen.

 

[Thothie]

Can't it be a dragon? Hell, one of the existing ones? I think we've a green one that's still missing (Jaminpor?)... No need to get the Lost or other worlds involved - plus we have good models for dragons that aren't evil emoticons. >_> Dragons are at least designated as things the gods leave aside for the mortals to deal with, most of the time.

 

[Gurluas]

1. dragons are too powerful, Iposatu is much weaker than a dragon
2. the netherworld has no dragons
3. there are a limited amount of dragons
4. even if we canned the netherworld, how would you get a dragon in a sunk underground city????

 

[Thothie]

1. dragons are too powerful, Iposatu is much weaker than a dragon

What happened to possible Avatar of the Lost?

2. the netherworld has no dragons

There is no netherworld.

3. there are a limited amount of dragons

We've got one open.

4. even if we canned the netherworld, how would you get a dragon in a sunk underground city????

He is missing, after all.

 

[Gurluas]

1. dragons are too powerful, Iposatu is much weaker than a dragon

What happened to possible Avatar of the Lost?

2. the netherworld has no dragons

There is no netherworld.

3. there are a limited amount of dragons

We've got one open.

4. even if we canned the netherworld, how would you get a dragon in a sunk underground city????

He is missing, after all.

1. Avatar does not men power, it means a lost have influence/can control the creature.
Its like if you have a remote control and control something
2. Debatable, I still say it does no harm to add it, in fact its important
3. True
4. Well...I think it makes more sense if he went to Dreadwind

 

[Keldorn]

In the context of rpgs (esp. Dungeons and Dragons, or anything involving gods or god-like creatures), "avatar" usually implies a physical manifestation or extension of a deity.

This, of course, implies immense power, especially if it's not just under the influence/manifestation of just one deity.

You'd be better off saying that Iposatu is basically just a puppet of the Lost, not an avatar.

Even then, I think Thothie made a few good points against that.

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

I wanna play as a Shad orc...

Is this too much to ask for!?!??


FYI: Runegahr is the coolest character of all time.

 

[Tentadrilus]

1. Avatar does not men power, it means a lost have influence/can control the creature.
Its like if you have a remote control and control something
2. Debatable, I still say it does no harm to add it, in fact its important
3. True
4. Well...I think it makes more sense if he went to Dreadwind

1. An avatar is the embodiment of a being - it is actually an extension of their personality into what is usually called the "mortal realm". So actually, it's a mixture of power and control.
2. There'd be no harm done if we blew up Easter Island, but we're not going to do that now, are we?
3. fukken owned
4. Underground cities degrade, and ceilings cave in. Who's to say the roof didn't collapse, allowing the dragon to take residence there?

 

[Thothie]

Well, by the dictionary definition, an Avatar is a physical manifestation of a god, and by tradition, all the powers of the god can be drawn through the avatar. (As they often are in the Hindu religion, where the term originates.)

Semantics aside, Ipsatsu has gone from one of the Lost, to an Avatar of the Lost, to something less powerful than a Dragon, merely controlled by the Lost, so, I suspect he's just going to keep shape shifting as is convenient to the conversation.

Suffice to say, the Lost don't pull strings - they fuel fires.


One of Lor Malgoriand's first "feats of strength", after drowning Adel, was to subjugate the dragon Rhudeanlorat, causing him to kneel before him, by sheer force of will. (If you want a reminder of what someone merely fueled by the Lost can do...) Jaminpor observed this in fear, and decided to flee, for Rhudeanlorat was much stronger than he, and Janz had no desire to be a slave to Lor Malgoriand.

Where he went is not written in any of the texts, just that he was never seen again.

There's some *hint* that Lor Malgoriand wanted to add Khaz to his forces as well, but there were thousands of miles of tunnels and dwarves between him and Khaz, and it maybe that Khaz was just fine with that, as he was in no condition to be fighting a war of that scale.

It maybe that Jaminpor took Khaz's lead, in that way, and used his sorcery to flee underground in turn. Maybe he found an ancient Loreldian city, one that could supply him with a new source of power, decided it looked safe, and hunkered down there. Then, I guess, one day, "WTF are these elves doing down here!?" (Well, it's at least no more contrived than the original idea.)

Although Dreadwind was axed due to map rearrangement, I do agree, I would like to save Jaminpor for something better than this fanfic. I just figured I'd throw out a bone.

 

[Gurluas]

Well, by the dictionary definition, an Avatar is a physical manifestation of a god, and by tradition, all the powers of the god can be drawn through the avatar. (As they often are in the Hindu religion, where the term originates.)

Semantics aside, Ipsatsu has gone from one of the Lost, to an Avatar of the Lost, to something less powerful than a Dragon, merely controlled by the Lost, so, I suspect he's just going to keep shape shifting as is convenient to the conversation.

Suffice to say, the Lost don't pull strings - they fuel fires.


One of Lor Malgoriand's first "feats of strength", after drowning Adel, was to subjugate the dragon Rhudeanlorat, causing him to kneel before him, by sheer force of will. (If you want a reminder of what someone merely fueled by the Lost can do...) Jaminpor observed this in fear, and decided to flee, for Rhudeanlorat was much stronger than he, and Janz had no desire to be a slave to Lor Malgoriand.

Where he went is not written in any of the texts, just that he was never seen again.

There's some *hint* that Lor Malgoriand wanted to add Khaz to his forces as well, but there were thousands of miles of tunnels and dwarves between him and Khaz, and it maybe that Khaz was just fine with that, as he was in no condition to be fighting a war of that scale.

It maybe that Jaminpor took Khaz's lead, in that way, and used his sorcery to flee underground in turn. Maybe he found an ancient Loreldian city, one that could supply him with a new source of power, decided it looked safe, and hunkered down there. Then, I guess, one day, "WTF are these elves doing down here!?" (Well, it's at least no more contrived than the original idea.)

Although Dreadwind was axed due to map rearrangement, I do agree, I would like to save Jaminpor for something better than this fanfic. I just figured I'd throw out a bone.

Lor Malgoriand is not an avatar of a lost however, Lor Malgoriand is merely an entity empowered by the lost to bring chaos to the world. Iposatu is a real avatar. However just because it is an avatar it does not mean it is extremely powerful. Iposatu cannot manipulate fate, his strength lies in deception and manipulation of the players. He could have fought you in Nashalrath but retreated, theres a reason for that.

One thing is for sure though, Iposatu will try to manifest himself in Leann through the gateways the Depth Elves, undead humans, or whatever they are opened.

It is one of the reasons for the players to go to the Netherworld and stop him.
Something bigger lies there. something big which nobody will even take notice of once they see it.
I will Pm you some details about what my plan is, however please...Keep disclosure even if you disagree with it, I am sure we can iron it out.

 

[The Man In Black]

Why would the Lost go through such hoops to bring a weak avatar through a planar portal, especially when it's more of a contingency plan (the main show being Malgroriand/Maldora)? It's a lot of work, considering they could more easily influence a being on this plane. Also, why would their avatar choice be something that corrupts and influences people when they have the ability to do that without a middle-avatar? And why would your choice be something as foreign as Iposatu anyway? Why not something like an elf, human or dwarf who would have more sway over their race from the get-go than a being that's going to have to work even harder to gain power over races?

 

[Gurluas]

Why would the Lost go through such hoops to bring a weak avatar through a planar portal, especially when it's more of a contingency plan (the main show being Malgroriand/Maldora)? It's a lot of work, considering they could more easily influence a being on this plane. Also, why would their avatar choice be something that corrupts and influences people when they have the ability to do that without a middle-avatar? And why would your choice be something as foreign as Iposatu anyway? Why not something like an elf, human or dwarf who would have more sway over their race from the get-go than a being that's going to have to work even harder to gain power over races?

Iposatu is only controlled by one specific lost and the last one "existing" in that plane, I wont go in deeper details Thothie knows as I posted him the planned plot, also he never intended to go through, in fact, you intrude upon his realm by entering the portal and slaughtering his champion.

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

Drop it :? if he didn't get our point in 7 pages of replies, he won't get it in the next 7 pages.

I'm really starting to agree with jon...

 

[Gurluas]

Drop it :? if he didn't get our point in 7 pages of replies, he won't get it in the next 7 pages.

I'm really starting to agree with jon...

I don't feel like giving up on a very good idea just because some people bitches over small details in an unfinished map.

 

[Tentadrilus]

Ok, let me give it to you straight.

It's not your place to judge your own work. It definitely isn't your place to go shoving said garbage down people's throats and expect them to work for the next 5 months putting it ingame. And most of all, it definitely totally 100%ly isn't your place to go and bolt random shit on to other people's toils and claim "IT'S NEW AND INTERESTING". Developing a game requires you to leave your ego at the door, lest you fuck it all up with your shitty ideas and ideals. Clearly you didn't get that memo.

Moral of the story? Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down.

If you still continue to miss the point after this, then you are, by definition, far beyond help.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

First Iposatu was one of the Lost, then he became an avatar of the Lost, and now he's a being "influenced" by the Lost, weaker than your average dragon.
First the Netherworld was an entirely different plane of existance from which "thousands of horrors poured into Nashalrath", now it's the remnant of another world.
First Nashalrath was inhabited by giant bulls, then by digger Elves who no longer grew hair "because they did not need it", now by mutated Elves who were once Torkalath Elves.

As Thothie already pointed out, things seem to keep changing to suit the discussion. But no matter how much you change the above garbage, I've yet to see one mapper who'd like to work with you on these ideas.

That being said, I'm leaving this thread. I hope all the others follow me. It'd be a shame if a thread like this reached fifteen pages.