Elves or Bludgeons

[Tentadrilus]

Undead stuff.

 

[Freerad]

Undead stuff.

Undead are always good stuff.

 

[Gurluas]

Undead what, and how can undead dig?

 

[Borya]

YEAH FREERAD, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU, IT'S NOT LIKE UNDEAD HAVE LIMBS OR CAN USE ANY OBJECTS TO FACILITATE DIGGING, GOD.

 

[Gurluas]

Undead are frail... However if we say Undead dwarves maybe...Dwarf zombies?

 

[Borya]

Undead are frail...

Because all undead outside of what's found in sfor aren't really undead, but undead-shaped golems?

 

[Gurluas]

By frail i mean they dont have muscles, they cant beat you but they cant dig an extremely large tunnel to the surface.

 

[Borya]

Because untiring legions are a terrible thing to try doing manual labour with.

 

[Gurluas]

Right I get your point...So what race...Undead Elves, Undead Dwarves or Undead humans?

 

[Borya]

Skeletons made out of demiliches.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Now if you want to help me I'd appreciate if you could find a race/enemy which would fit Hashalgath's people since people dislike Depth Elves and Bludgeons

NORMAL ELVES! What the hell is stopping them from being able to mine tunnels? Just put elf ghosts in there or something retarted. When the city sank into the ground the elven survivors tried to dig their way out, possibly battling with whatever foes were sieging the castle when it sank. The Nashalrath map tells the story of how the survivors either A) dug their way to safety or B) starved into Oblivion (your choice).

Thats perfect for lore. It's a colorful backstory that focuses on a period of history in msc. It explains to us the history and culture of a certain location before and during the age of blood. It's not overly cheesy or like a b-movie. It also doesn't try to conclude the entire Master Sword Mythos. What you need to do is keep your lore simple and minimalistic. Otherwise it will feel cheap, like a crappy soup where the chef threw in as many ingredients as he could.

But keep the bludgeons and undead that are there now. Why? Because it makes sense. They are the ghostly remains of Lor Malgoriands army.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

If you want my opinion: undead humans make the most sense by far.

Why? Dwarves almost always live underground anyways. It is not logical that they would build a city (above ground) which then sank into the ground due to some big event. As for the Elves... the 'friendly' Elves are pretty much being pussies by hiding in Kray Eldorad.
"The Elves are sure to be cowering in this mess... bad magic, they say.*"

Fallen Elves (like the Torkalath Elves) wouldn't build a city in a semi-friendly area like Eswen Mallan, which is close to human establishments like Edana and Helena. They'd just get assaulted non-stop.

Therefore, if you insist on wanting a 'logical' race in Nashalrath: go with undead humans. I bet even Thothie would back me on this one, even though he doesn't give a flying fuck about your lore.

Oversized bulls that wield giant hammers and axes are not a logical choice either.

*Thanks, Sogak. Thogak.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Why? Dwarves almost always live underground anyways. It is not logical that they would build a city (above ground) which then sank into the ground due to some big event. As for the Elves... the 'friendly' Elves are pretty much being pussies by hiding in Kray Eldorad.

But couldn't evil cults or something be camped out in the haunted forest? Maybe there could even be bandits or treasure hunters/tomb raiders in there?

Fallen Elves (like the Torkalath Elves) wouldn't build a city in a semi-friendly area like Eswen Mallan, which is close to human establishments like Edana and Helena. They'd just get assaulted non-stop.

Why would they be assaulted? Unlike the Elves, humans and dwarves arent required to kill the Rammatta on site. But they won't harbor them either, due to ancient treaties with the elves (or so says the PM I sent you ages ago that thothie gave me). Eswen Mallen would actually be a perfectly place for a rammatta colony to take refuge in (more like forced into a corner), because they are far from Kray Eldorad and in a place that would be hard for a conventional army to reach due to the hostile environment. They wouldn't have the resources to build a city though. They'd have to be hiding out in ruins.

Therefore, if you insist on wanting a 'logical' race in Nashalrath: go with undead humans. I bet even Thothie would back me on this one, even though he doesn't give a flying **** about your lore.

Humans make less sense to me (although more than giant digger elves) because the name of the forest is Eswen Mallen (like Eswen Sylen) which implies to me that it was inhabited by elves before it was destroyed.
Undead Felewyn Elves who died during the age of blood (basically citizens of Nashalrath) seem like a good choice to me.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

"Eswen" means forest so I have no idea what you're on about. Trees don't necessarily have to be related to Elves.

Edit: And Gurluas said Nashalrath is a city plenty of times...

 

[Gurluas]

In the original backstory using depth elves, the city was one of the last bastions of light when Eswen Mallan was corrupted.
Once it had fallen it was claimed by Malgoriand worshipping Torkalath elves who turned into Depth Elves in the many years underground.

Actually I'm contemplating using Depth Elves who are normal elf size and fights as normal elves but still look like depth elves.

 

[FER]

Are you working on the maps or something, or just waiting until Nash gets that change?

 

[Thothie]

Well, core issue with the lore ATM, aesthetics of Ipatsu the evil emoticon aside, is that your "springboard" requires both a new civilization, a new race, and a new god. If that's just the springboard, which is world breaking in itself, I'd hate to see the universe-destroying cataclysm it launches into.

I don't have time to do a blow-by-blow on the issues with this ATM, but part of the critical skill behind writing Fan-fic, is to do it in such a way that doesn't break the world it's in. You work with the world you have, not the world you want.

I will say, given that the bulk of undead assembled by Calrian, his brother, and Undamael, were sourced from The Halls of Carthane - I think they woulda noticed a portal to some dimension containing some remnant of the Lost. Most of the revered dead there date back to before the Crystal Age as well, so it isn't exactly a "fresh" series of tombs.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

"Eswen" means forest so I have no idea what you're on about. Trees don't necessarily have to be related to Elves.

Doesn't it mean that in the Elven language though?

Most of the revered dead there date back to before the Crystal Age as well, so it isn't exactly a "fresh" series of tombs.

The crystal age?

 

[Thothie]

The Crystal Eon (rather) is the age of extreme Order that preceded The Age of Blood and lasted about nine hundred years. (ms-timeline and also mentions the Time of Stone and the Age of Rage, and hints at several similar prehistoric cycles dating back to the Age of Creation, which proceeded the War of Fate.)

The old Elven empire controlled most of the continent during the Crystal Eon, hence any place with more than one tree having "Eswen" stamped on it. The old human kingdom existed, but was in a state of, sort of stalemated, internal struggle and slow decay (and, apparently, debauchery, towards the end) that precluded expansion (and had made them, on the whole, a sore disappointment to their god). The dwarves spent most of the time in seclusion from the surface, digging deeper, and dealing with a two angry dragons, at least one of which is still active (ie. Khaz).

By the end of the Age of Blood, the Elven empire (and populous) was almost entirely decimated (they only control one city now - and even that is sparsely populated). The human empire had re-organized and risen up to prominence, and the dwarves had renewed and strengthened ties with the surface folks as a result of all the fighting.

 

[Srgnt Rehab]

My brain hatched an idea that probably won't actually work correctly... but a non frail skeleton? Broad shoulders, well equiped with armor (broken rusted armor perhaps)

Bone structure similar to this...

 

[Thothie]

I think we've already established that making "bone abominations" out of bits of skeletons for really mean, not even necessarily humanoid, undead creations is par for the course for your more advanced necromancers.

 

[Gurluas]

Well, core issue with the lore ATM, aesthetics of Ipatsu the evil emoticon aside, is that your "springboard" requires both a new civilization, a new race, and a new god. If that's just the springboard, which is world breaking in itself, I'd hate to see the universe-destroying cataclysm it launches into.

I don't have time to do a blow-by-blow on the issues with this ATM, but part of the critical skill behind writing Fan-fic, is to do it in such a way that doesn't break the world it's in. You work with the world you have, not the world you want.

I will say, given that the bulk of undead assembled by Calrian, his brother, and Undamael, were sourced from The Halls of Carthane - I think they woulda noticed a portal to some dimension containing some remnant of the Lost. Most of the revered dead there date back to before the Crystal Age as well, so it isn't exactly a "fresh" series of tombs.

The civilization is not exactly new, nor is it a new race. More of a subrace, in fact such subraces exist for humans as well. I bet theres black humans in Valen.

Also remember that Nashalrath has been buried over over 200 years, even if they knew about the portal they could not access it. As for Iposatu he is not a god.. It is a creature claiming to be a god, and we've seen entities do that before. Is it an avatar of a god?...Who knows.

I know it adds some new elements to the world but many maps did that. Nobody knew of the Shaddar orcs until they were added for instance. A few years ago only 3 kinds of orcs existed.

 

[Thothie]

The Shad orcs have been around forever, the story behind them, however, did take on a life of its own. Lanethan at least had a hand in that. He opted to axe the Borsh orcs, and decided to build on Shahaddar's history to give the orc race a shot at "redemption" through this lost tribe, I suppose. The only non-lore tied thing that crawled out of that clusterf*ck was the palace - but it only served to strengthen where he was going with it (provides them with a source and semblance of civlization above and beyond any of the other tribes). Granted, he seems to forget who he did and didn't axe from time to time, so I kinda have to rely on what I have here. >_>

If we're going to have any new avatars of The Lost running about (ie. new Lor Malgoriand's/Maldora's), they need to be drawn on from the existing races - that's kind of the point of having them - manifestations of the world's potential for self destruction. Granted, Maldora's crawling into the lore was so contrived it's hard to tell just what race he is - on the lengthy list of things to iron out before we add more wrinkles.

 

[Gurluas]

The Shad orcs have been around forever, the story behind them, however, did take on a life of its own. Lanethan at least had a hand in that. He opted to axe the Borsh orcs, and decided to build on Shahaddar's history to give the orc race a shot at "redemption" through this lost tribe, I suppose. The only non-lore tied thing that crawled out of that clusterf*ck was the palace - but it only served to strengthen where he was going with it (provides them with a semblance of civlization above and beyond any of the other tribes). Granted, he seems to forget who he did and didn't axe from time to time, so I kinda have to rely on what I have here. >_>

If we're going to have any new avatars of The Lost running about (ie. new Lor Malgoriand's/Maldora's), they need to be drawn on from the existing races - that's kind of the point of having them. Granted, Maldora's crawling into the lore was so contrived it's hard to tell just what race he is - on the lengthy list of things to iron out before we add more wrinkles.

The point still stands that Daragoth is a big continent and new/unknown factions can emerge, same for lost cities.
As for Iposatu, remember that the existing races do not necessarily exist in the world Iposatu hails from, different worlds warrants different races.

Not to mention that avatars get corrupted in time, which is why Iposatu has a rather mysterious appearance. But who knows, perhaps the race of Iposatu still exist in the netherworld, or it has gone extinct a long time ago.
The Netherworld is an abandoned battlefield of a Lost Loreldian battle. Few areas are inhabitable and few non abomination creatures live. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[Thothie]

Yeah, I'm not willing to deal with different worlds, when we've not got our own ironed out.

I'd be more apt to go with another member of the existing races falling into the madness of The Lost, and thus, either wittingly or unwittingly, aiding them. Maybe even one such dark avatar of each race, but no evil emoticons from other worlds. Granted, it would complicate our end game even further - would have to get all three of them into the throne room of Shae'hae'deed at the same time to get eaten, and probably give secret Title sects for each. Jeeze...

And yes, we find ancient ruins and cities cropping up all the time, flooded with all sorts of nasty monsters, but none that drastically alter the layout of our gods in the process - nothing more threatening than the return Lor Malgoriand himself. The Loreldians left so much crap behind, and there've been so many drastically powerful wizards over the eons, there's plenty of bad nasties for the races to deal with that don't necessarily call for the direct wrath of the gods before they can be put down.