Felewyn's Light idea

[Thothie]

I'm up for most of that...

listing up every monster, it's levels, health, damage...

Gathering a list of all the monster attributes just requires me to get some time to make that script diving script I was working on. It was supposed to gather all the weapon and monster stats and put them into an html. MiB started on something similar, but it only returned skilllevels and not in any useful format.

I suppose areas like Keledros' Keep can remain difficult for the purpose of co-operative play,

Heh, you *have* been gone awhile... Meh, poor Keledros can't hardly hold his own anymore. Even though he's more powerful than he's ever been, he's gone from the top of the boss chain to the bottom.

I would like to see less gauntlet maps like World Walker and more exploratory maps like Thornlands (playwise mind you, I'd like to see the exact opposite, quality wise), but the latter are much harder to make. I'd also like to see more mid-level maps, cuz it seems we still have a large skill hole between 15 and 25. Nevermind the 40+ skill hole that, well, people are more than eager to work on, so I'm not too worried about it.

I also feel that magic should be slower, but more powerful. I always thought of magic in Daragoth to be something that would require immense focus, concentration and knowledge in order to be used.

Magic is leveling waaay too quickly. Granted we come from the school where the ultra-pathetic lightning bolt and fire dart were the only things you could level, and really, the only spells that worked. Now we have, what, 22 spells?

However, the problem with the "more powerful" end of things is that it will be more highly sought after, and the magic is already far too overpowering as it is. Last thing we need is another clique of gods to form and nubs to bitch about. Although, it's at least weak enough that you generally don't want to rely on it exclusively, even if you have the health from other skills.

What I'd like to see happen with magic is a more even ramping system, so it's not all "omfg this frost bolt is USELESS!" to "omfg I have blizzard, I PWN all now111!". Issue with that is, I can't add more inbetween spells without making people level faster, and I can't spread the spell levels out, without taking spells away from people who already have them, in addition to having to do it again, every time we add a new "inbetween" spell.

Only other solution I can think of, is to fux with the hard code end of things to divide the XP that goes to magic (which I'm sure people would adore me for[/sarcasm]). Suffice to say, I don't think anything can be done to fix the magic system without doing something extremely unpopular. I suspect, eventually, something extremely unpopular will just have to be done. It's broken as it is, IMO, and difficult to alter in a kind way, without breaking it even more.

 

[Evaan]

By slower and more powerful, I meant that it's slower to cast, but has a more powerful impact. Now it's just pom-pom-pom-pom and walk backwards until it dies.

One could, say, triple it's cast time and power to make creatures die in lesser hits, but generally at the same amount of time.

By doin that, one has to be careful when casting spells, as you would have to stand somewhat still while casting the spell. Also, firing from high ground gives them a huge benefit.

Creating a HTML list of all the monsters and weapons would take too much time.
I have an outliner tool that I've been using for my own game plan that works perfectly.

It's a simple collapse/expand list, and I can indent information into eternity. One can also colorize and add movies and images to the text boxes.


Anyways, I suppose I could be of assistance somehow to get things out a little bit faster, so you don't have to do everything yourself, and having to postpone certain new features because of other issues that arise with elsewhere.

 

[Gurluas]

By slower and more powerful, I meant that it's slower to cast, but has a more powerful impact. Now it's just pom-pom-pom-pom and walk backwards until it dies.

One could, say, triple it's cast time and power to make creatures die in lesser hits, but generally at the same amount of time.

By doin that, one has to be careful when casting spells, as you would have to stand somewhat still while casting the spell. Also, firing from high ground gives them a huge benefit.

Creating a HTML list of all the monsters and weapons would take too much time.
I have an outliner tool that I've been using for my own game plan that works perfectly.

It's a simple collapse/expand list, and I can indent information into eternity. One can also colorize and add movies and images to the text boxes.


Anyways, I suppose I could be of assistance somehow to get things out a little bit faster, so you don't have to do everything yourself, and having to postpone certain new features because of other issues that arise with elsewhere.

Yeah also Thothie is quite hard pressed because of incomming maps
although Nashalrath only really needs 3 or 4 scripts,
2 of em are stronger editions of existing creatures

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Disclaimer for Evaan: Nashalrath is a map Gurluas is making along with LittleFrodo. This map is going to be full of bludgeon demons (Gurluas' all-time favorite monster) so that's why he keeps talking about it

 

[Gurluas]

Disclaimer for Evaan: Nashalrath is a map Gurluas is making along with LittleFrodo. This map is going to be full of bludgeon demons (Gurluas' all-time favorite monster) so that's why he keeps talking about it

Actually bludgeons are rare...
only the starting area has bludgeons
the rest has a much more dangerous enemy that even defies Malgoriand

 

[Evaan]

I think one of the problems Tothie is facing is all the new stuff that keeps coming, and no time to fix the old stuff.

Can't really risk being left behind to spend time on the old stuff anyways, seeing as people who've already been in those areas wouldn't really care.

 

[Thothie]

By slower and more powerful, I meant that it's slower to cast, but has a more powerful impact. Now it's just pom-pom-pom-pom and walk backwards until it dies.

Ah, but then people just whore up wisdom until they get the power to spam world ending spells like gods... We do have a few spells that work like this, such as Volcano and Freezing Sphere, and they still get spammed like mad. Volcano and firewall are nice in that they have a built-in thing that forces you to cast them again, so there's some limit on the speed of depoyment at least, but it doesn't stop from tossing them willy nilly in the end.

Granted, on your last sentence - I should point out that was originally the only way to use magic. At least now you can toss a blizzard into something and go at it with your sword, to take advantage of the slow effect. In the end more effective, since the blizzards DOT's do not stack. Similarly with poison cloud and volcano. Freezing sphere does no damage at all, by itself. Fireball and Lightning Storm, and pretty much the only two that are real effective with the pedal backwards and spam approach, save the original two spells, and maybe poison dart and frost bolt, that are all so weak you have no other choice.

 

[Evaan]

That's what I'm talking about - power them up and slow their casting rate.

I'd say at least 2-3 seconds, and autoaim for tracking purposes (not that the spell cast follows the enemy, but while casting, so you don't lose focus).

It would require some testing, but I think it would be a somewhat welcome change. Some will probably prefere it the way it is, while others might like being able to kill faster in fewer clicks.

It's pretty much like the power attack on the weapons. While charging your attack for a more powerful blow, you are left vulnerable to attacks without being able to counter-attack quickly (a sacrifice I rarely make, actually).

Why I think the base spells (the other spells might be powerful enough already, I haven't been able to test them yet) should be more powerful is due to the fact that a mage with little strength, isn't capable of wielding armour (aye, Ice Shield works to a great extend, but it requires a lot of mana), and if they can't kill their enemy fast enough, they'll get slaughtered quite easily when the creature eventually reaches the mage.

Some lesser potent armour spells would be nice, but then again, that would render armour useless, as people who trade in all skill lines get the armour spells as well.

 

[Thothie]

Well, my point was, we already have spells like that, and people still manage to spam them.

Armor and Ice Shied stack so they in no way render one another useless though.

Yeah, ya get Ice Shield at level 5, which comes up pretty quickly... I suspect a 25% shield for 25 mana at level 3 wouldn't be of much use. But tis true, would be easy to toss in, and wouldn't affect the level field.

I can't boost the basic spells any further without increasing the rate at which magic levels (which as we agreed, is already waay too fast). I already boosted Lightning and Fire Dart quite a bit (although on the latter, it was just by fixing a bug in the script). Frost Dart and Poison are both fairly week, but easily double your leveling speed, just by giving you access to more categories, as does Rebuke Undead, not too much later.

 

[The Man In Black]

BACK TO THE SUBJECT

Is this idea getting implemented? There's been so much spam of random crap that I honestly don't remember a response =|

 

[PBarnum]

I think it should, otherwise the ring is practically useless

 

[Thothie]

What idea, oh the ring?

No... At least not anytime soon. The way the ring works, it uses the same, non-adjustable, base glow system the torch does. It wouldn't be very easy to adapt it to the glow spell system.

If we ever get our elven city in, might setup a Priestess of Felewyn who can upgrade the ring as part of a quest or some such. Like most of our upgrades, it'd effectively be a new item.

I'm sure Ryza could upgrade it, but she has better things to do than fiddle with your ring.

 

[villager]

I have an idea that might make the Felewyn's Light abit more useful and make leveling sc somewhat more fun

Instead of every sc level you gain a larger glow radius, how about every two levels? It annoyed me how huge the maxium glow radius was, and it's only at lvl10. I figured this would make the torch and Felewyn's Light more useful and used more often (I really like torches )

 

[Thothie]

It maxes at 12, actually... I dunno, seems rather cruel to the nubs. They more or less have to rely on torches until they get SC 5 or a Felewyn ring. Low level glow is a very small radius, and red.

 

[PBarnum]

How about for an extra bonus, make the ring emit different colors for every level (or 2). And for the Wizards out there with level 25 SC, it can be something fun like a disco ring.

 

[Thothie]

The way the ring works, it uses the same, non-adjustable, base glow system the torch does. It wouldn't be very easy to adapt it to the glow spell system.

 

[PBarnum]

Right but couldn't you do that with the upgraded ring in a quest that hasn't been made (yet )?

 

[Thothie]

No... At least not anytime soon.

 

[PBarnum]

Blast. So is this idea pretty much shafted?

 

[Thothie]

Well, I got more pressing things to deal with of which I'm way behind on. I really, REALLY gotta get all Crow's scripts done by the end of the month. I suspect Blasto or MiB, and maybe Little Frodo will be hitting me up for scripts this month too. Plus I'm currently working on a few scripts for Replica's remake of Skycastle1 (just to make things even more confusing) - which I think he can have out by next month, if not sooner.

So, basically, minor things like that, that cannot be done easily, won't be getting done anytime soon.

 

[villager]

It maxes at 12, actually... I dunno, seems rather cruel to the nubs. They more or less have to rely on torches until they get SC 5 or a Felewyn ring. Low level glow is a very small radius, and red.

I saw absolutely no difference between levels 10-12 (Unless it was pure white with a larger radius, omg). Torches are only used for levels 10s or lower, and Felewyn's Light is hardly touched because once they got a reasonable sc level for glow, they still probably couldn't kill the Lord of the Land. Unless they're a wizard, then they don't stand a chance.

How about for an extra bonus, make the ring emit different colors for every level (or 2). And for the Wizards out there with level 25 SC, it can be something fun like a disco ring.

Now that would be cruel to the higher levels oO.

 

[Evaan]

Everything doesn't have to be magnificent and powerful, you know.

Felewyn's Light's just a nifty trinket for those who desire to achieve it the way it is achieved

I never carry any torches. Mainly because my spells require two hands, and if I'm in a dark area, such as the dark caves, I would have to drop a trail of torches to illuminate my path.

Therefore I use Glow.

However, I didn't know it had a smaller radius than the torch.
Perhaps I might see myself carrying more torches now... Especially if I'm to take on weapons after all...

 

[PBarnum]

Well, usually people only take their SC level to the minimum of what they want (12 for glow, 15 for volc, ect.). This way, if there was something new every level, there would be no reason to stop leveling SC.

 

[Thothie]

There are spells going up all the way to 20 already. People tend to keep leveling to get those poison clouds and freezing spheres, and the like, so it seems.

 

[Evaan]

When I level my magic, I do so to increase my spells power so I can kill faster.

What I would love, is for the wizard to make choices when the spell "levels".

Let's say Fire Dart changes at level 10 (I have no idea if it actually does).
You can now choose whether you want to increase it's burning DoT by doubling its damage and duration, or you can turn it into a powerful (2x impact damage) fireball that shoots straight forward and goes off with an AoE boom (like it does now, sort of). Instead of arcing, it dissipates after a certain range and thus decrease in power the further away from the wizard it gets.

Just a thought. Would make the spell line a little more interesting.

Another thought that just smashed my head is for the Ice Shield; a choice to whether you want to increase the duration by 2x, or decrease the protection in half, but have a 10% chance the enemy who strikes you, is frozen (or remove the protection completely, as having it protect and freeze/stun the enemy sounds a little overpowering).