I saw them on Easylevels2 aslwell soh
For Servers who want Clients: Maps w/Spawns & Helena Fix
- Thread starter Thothie
- Start date
- Banned
- #52
Hell's Diner MS on easylevels2? There goes the last pure server <_<
that and my server whenever it's up.. which is never.. but still
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- #54
I've no cheat maps -per say- on my server... Although I have a lot of clients who seem to know how to use TSearch to hack their characters real good. :|
I wouldn't be above putting maps that didn't seem like intentional cheat maps imo on it though... Tis I just don't have any atm (the few I saw under Won are long gone). I was looking into converting this villiage map into a Goblin town type thingie... But seems my free time is drying up again.
So for now, aside from fixed Helena, and maps spawns, I guess it's pure-ish at least.
__________
"Yeah sure Pops, no jury in the world is going to convict a baby....maybe Texas." -Chief Wiggum
Saint Thoth
I wouldn't be above putting maps that didn't seem like intentional cheat maps imo on it though... Tis I just don't have any atm (the few I saw under Won are long gone). I was looking into converting this villiage map into a Goblin town type thingie... But seems my free time is drying up again.
So for now, aside from fixed Helena, and maps spawns, I guess it's pure-ish at least.
__________
"Yeah sure Pops, no jury in the world is going to convict a baby....maybe Texas." -Chief Wiggum
Saint Thoth
- Banned
- #55
Thothie said:
Long gone? Then how come I have 80+ custom MS maps?
You've never been to my MS site before have you
ms_quest, ms_swamp, ms_caves, ms_town (Cyax' maps)
lowlands, highlands, lostcastle, skycastle, orcplace (Crow's maps)
Those are the two best series. Try them.
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- #56
You must link me your web site.
I think maybe I had been there in the days of Won or something, some of those sound familiar, I did have quite a few maps. I know I had your temple map with all the secrets and no ms_ents.
I see a lot of good maps that have vast potential for conversion to MS maps, some of which I know the devs, and can probably get the sources for. Also had this idea for an ocean-travel map, where you started in a multi-level Galion, and some orc raider ship docks along side you, and you must fight them off... Then your ship sinks, and you have to board their ship to make it the rest of the way. All based on a half-assed PVK map... Sadly, again, I can't do crap with World Craft myself. Too many years of working with DTP oriented 3D design programs, I guess.
__________
"It's not stupid. Its advaaanced." - The Tallest of the Tall, Zim
Saint Thoth
I think maybe I had been there in the days of Won or something, some of those sound familiar, I did have quite a few maps. I know I had your temple map with all the secrets and no ms_ents.
I see a lot of good maps that have vast potential for conversion to MS maps, some of which I know the devs, and can probably get the sources for. Also had this idea for an ocean-travel map, where you started in a multi-level Galion, and some orc raider ship docks along side you, and you must fight them off... Then your ship sinks, and you have to board their ship to make it the rest of the way. All based on a half-assed PVK map... Sadly, again, I can't do crap with World Craft myself. Too many years of working with DTP oriented 3D design programs, I guess.
__________
"It's not stupid. Its advaaanced." - The Tallest of the Tall, Zim
Saint Thoth
- Banned
- #57
urdual2 ?
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #58
Eh, maybe it was one of Cyrax's... Black and white temple, think four exits set around a central pillar, where you spawned, and each had a different little puzzle to complete... *shrug* I got Crow's maps and some other maps I found on-line. I'll start sorting through them and figuring which I approve of sometime soon.
BTW, I amped my Helena up a little more, same link:
http://www.thothie.com/ms/helena.bsp
I made it so there should pretty much always be four trolls wondering about (rather than, just now and again). With 9 players, we pulled it off, but lost all but one of the civilians. (We lost the bartender, goddamnitall!) Not all high levelers, mind you.
Later did it again with five high levelers, and one h4x character who can kill a Troll with two arrows, and shall not be named. Still, even with the h4x0r, we lost three civilians, so I think this should be considerably harder than the previous incarnation... Maybe a bit too hard though.
I'm surprised, but the extra troll bodies don't seem to bother it much. No crashes in any of the attempts. (Save for one caused post-victory by someone snagging the leather armor from the chest)
Sidenote: There are four troll spawns: three with 15 trolls lives each, that re-spawn every 1-3 minutes, and one with 25 troll lives, that re-spawns every minute. You may wind up with some trolls still spawning post-victory, but usually not too long after. They will not simply spawn forever.
__________
"Angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of the night." - Ginsberg
Saint Thoth
BTW, I amped my Helena up a little more, same link:
http://www.thothie.com/ms/helena.bsp
I made it so there should pretty much always be four trolls wondering about (rather than, just now and again). With 9 players, we pulled it off, but lost all but one of the civilians. (We lost the bartender, goddamnitall!) Not all high levelers, mind you.
Later did it again with five high levelers, and one h4x character who can kill a Troll with two arrows, and shall not be named. Still, even with the h4x0r, we lost three civilians, so I think this should be considerably harder than the previous incarnation... Maybe a bit too hard though.
I'm surprised, but the extra troll bodies don't seem to bother it much. No crashes in any of the attempts. (Save for one caused post-victory by someone snagging the leather armor from the chest)
Sidenote: There are four troll spawns: three with 15 trolls lives each, that re-spawn every 1-3 minutes, and one with 25 troll lives, that re-spawns every minute. You may wind up with some trolls still spawning post-victory, but usually not too long after. They will not simply spawn forever.
__________
"Angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of the night." - Ginsberg
Saint Thoth
- Banned
- #59
The puzzle map you're talking about is urdual2. You should try it, it's one of the few maps without MS entities (except for the spawn entity).
- Banned
- #60
Oh and Thothie, do you have a link to your latest map edits? I'd like to host them on my server because... well it's just a great initiative. I'm also talking about the newbie enhancement for Edana.
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- Admin
- #61
Eh, they're all on the first page of the associated threads (if I updated them, I overwrote the originals where noted) - save for Crow's, which still need polish (and I may never release if I can't figure how to fix the Highlands crash bug).
__________
"Lesson lesson... If you see a stranger, follow him!" - Edward, Bebop
Saint Thoth
__________
"Lesson lesson... If you see a stranger, follow him!" - Edward, Bebop
Saint Thoth
- Banned
- #62
Thanks!
Edit: I just read the description of your updated Helena... 70 trolls
Edit: I just read the description of your updated Helena... 70 trolls
Hell yea! That sounds like somthing my 1337 (stats not hacked, and damn pround of it) character could dig into - Banned
- #64
DUDE! I just completed it! Alone! And only the mayor died! But it was freaking amazing! Damn trolls just keep coming! Wow!
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- #65
Another Update
I was actually working on something else entirely (MS Level 2), when I got really sick of repeatedly getting the orc-spawn error. So I decided I was going to lick this puppy once and for all.
The issue seems to be caused by the nature of the spawns used. To prevent this in your own maps, try to avoid large chains of monster area spawns with many lives with "fireallperish". Instead, either use point monster spawns chained via trigger_relay'd "fireallperish", or multiple, single life spawns. Seems MS tends to often get hung up otherwise.
Changes:
- Spread out the Trolls, horizontally: Prevents merging. Also makes them more likely to slip by.
- Reduced 25 spawn troll to 15. (May still need to reduce them all a bit)
- Moved Shop Keeper to door: This in an effort to discourage archers. Archers like to camp in the shop, continually purchase arrows from the merchant, and toss them at the trolls/orcs through the window. This most often leads to server crash. Hopefully moving him to the door, where he's more easily accessed by the critters, will help cut down on this behavior. (Believe me, if I had a way, I'd make it so you couldn't use your bow at all on the map.)
- Reduced all original waves to 1 life each and increased progression of orc types (wave4 consists of 4 berserkers and 2 flayers)
- Added wave5. Which consists of 64 standard orcs, in waves of 8. (eight seperate point spawns, with eight lives each, chained via relay)
- Added CD battle music for wave5 (it never lasts through the wave though)
- Added CD orchestral strike music for Battle Wagon appearance
- Lowered vertical WarBoss and guard's spawn level, so they walk out, instead of fly out.
- Added monster only push ents to doors of Battle Wagon, to ensure guards and WarBoss don't get stuck.
- Added global death notices when civilians die. Hopefully this helps players catch on to the fact that, as this takes place before 2001AD, dead civilians are not a good thing.
Download (same link): http://www.thothie.com/ms/helena.bsp
If you don't want to take the time to download a megabyte, and know how to use Ripent/BSPEdit, you may also download just the 40k ent file:
http://www.thothie.com/ms/helena.ent
TIPS: Unless your character's are hacked, it seems very unlikely you can save all the civilians. Even as a single hacked character, it will be difficult. For legits, best bet is, when it gets hot, to choose one civilian and consider the others collateral damage. I recommend the Black Smith, as he's the most valuable. You can sell the battle axes to him from the chest and Warboss Guards at 800gp a piece, plus he may sell Knights Armor after the battle.
__________
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -Mahatma Gandhi
Saint Thoth
I was actually working on something else entirely (MS Level 2), when I got really sick of repeatedly getting the orc-spawn error. So I decided I was going to lick this puppy once and for all.
The issue seems to be caused by the nature of the spawns used. To prevent this in your own maps, try to avoid large chains of monster area spawns with many lives with "fireallperish". Instead, either use point monster spawns chained via trigger_relay'd "fireallperish", or multiple, single life spawns. Seems MS tends to often get hung up otherwise.
Changes:
- Spread out the Trolls, horizontally: Prevents merging. Also makes them more likely to slip by.
- Reduced 25 spawn troll to 15. (May still need to reduce them all a bit)
- Moved Shop Keeper to door: This in an effort to discourage archers. Archers like to camp in the shop, continually purchase arrows from the merchant, and toss them at the trolls/orcs through the window. This most often leads to server crash. Hopefully moving him to the door, where he's more easily accessed by the critters, will help cut down on this behavior. (Believe me, if I had a way, I'd make it so you couldn't use your bow at all on the map.)
- Reduced all original waves to 1 life each and increased progression of orc types (wave4 consists of 4 berserkers and 2 flayers)
- Added wave5. Which consists of 64 standard orcs, in waves of 8. (eight seperate point spawns, with eight lives each, chained via relay)
- Added CD battle music for wave5 (it never lasts through the wave though)
- Added CD orchestral strike music for Battle Wagon appearance
- Lowered vertical WarBoss and guard's spawn level, so they walk out, instead of fly out.
- Added monster only push ents to doors of Battle Wagon, to ensure guards and WarBoss don't get stuck.
- Added global death notices when civilians die. Hopefully this helps players catch on to the fact that, as this takes place before 2001AD, dead civilians are not a good thing.
Download (same link): http://www.thothie.com/ms/helena.bsp
If you don't want to take the time to download a megabyte, and know how to use Ripent/BSPEdit, you may also download just the 40k ent file:
http://www.thothie.com/ms/helena.ent
TIPS: Unless your character's are hacked, it seems very unlikely you can save all the civilians. Even as a single hacked character, it will be difficult. For legits, best bet is, when it gets hot, to choose one civilian and consider the others collateral damage. I recommend the Black Smith, as he's the most valuable. You can sell the battle axes to him from the chest and Warboss Guards at 800gp a piece, plus he may sell Knights Armor after the battle.
__________
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -Mahatma Gandhi
Saint Thoth
awsome. way 2 go.btw, wuts "MS level 2"?
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #67
Oh, my second surprise is taking longer than I thought, due to the above detour, and lack of time due to increased client flow and such...
Anywho, the idea was to make a series of ENT files for all the existing vanilla MS maps that could be activated and deactivated via a batch file. What these would do would be to increase the difficulty of all the existing MS maps in such a way that client's wouldn't need to re-download the maps. It would do this by upgrading Boars to Huge Ravenous Boars, Bears to Giant Bears, Skeletons to Walking Ashes, Walking Ashes to Hideous Corpses, Orc Warriors to Berzerkers, etc, etc, and by increasing the number of enemies, where feasible. Maybe also making use of some unused areas - like the Undamel Throne in Sfor.
Assuming you aren't an Archer whore, you can get straight 20's on your character in about six to eight hours of play, so I thought this might be of use to legit players, who simply have outgrown the existing MS world.
What I was thinking of doing, was to run the MS Level2 variant on weekends, or some such.
__________
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." -Albert Einstein
Saint Thoth
that sounds sweet! i thought maybe you meant a map or something, which i would of course be even more interested in
btw, did you just change an entity around the fountain in edana to a transition? If you can add entities by useing, i think you use ripent, could you not just copy an existing ms transition's text and change its position and other stuff as needed?
I'm making this suggestion assuming the "area" of the transition can be copied by ripent, which it probably cant, or at least you cant see it and/or change it.
btw, did you just change an entity around the fountain in edana to a transition? If you can add entities by useing, i think you use ripent, could you not just copy an existing ms transition's text and change its position and other stuff as needed?
I'm making this suggestion assuming the "area" of the transition can be copied by ripent, which it probably cant, or at least you cant see it and/or change it.
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #69
Sadly no... I can't move or duplicate the model brush, I can only change the entity tied to it... I *may* be able to tie multiple entities to one model - I've not tried that one yet.
If the darn point-entity would work for multiple players, the issue would be solved.
I was thinking I should edit Gateroom so that it has no scripted entities (ie. convert the mushrooms and undemel to sprites). I'm not sure what causes the MS map crash, but if MS scripts have something to do with it...
...any devs know if that's the issue? What exactally causes the map transition crash in ye old MS, and how did you fix it?
__________
âAre you still afraid you might be a bunny rabbit under that mask?â â Dr. Gone, The Maxx
Saint Thoth
If the darn point-entity would work for multiple players, the issue would be solved.
I was thinking I should edit Gateroom so that it has no scripted entities (ie. convert the mushrooms and undemel to sprites). I'm not sure what causes the MS map crash, but if MS scripts have something to do with it...
...any devs know if that's the issue? What exactally causes the map transition crash in ye old MS, and how did you fix it?
__________
âAre you still afraid you might be a bunny rabbit under that mask?â â Dr. Gone, The Maxx
Saint Thoth
Thothie said:
You can dupe the model using ripent, it's a fairly common way to get around limits in NS.
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- Admin
- #72
Eh, if I dup the model entry, don't I wind up with the same model, in the same place - just two two different entities tied to it? (Ie. two entities tied to the same model)?
Model entries don't have origins - so there's no way to move them so far as I can tell. Although, I've not tried sticking an origin on them. Be funny as hell if that worked. That would solve my Edana issue, but sounds too good to be true.
__________
"Smell the fragrance in the feathers of the angel of death." - Noir
Saint Thoth
Model entries don't have origins - so there's no way to move them so far as I can tell. Although, I've not tried sticking an origin on them. Be funny as hell if that worked. That would solve my Edana issue, but sounds too good to be true.
__________
"Smell the fragrance in the feathers of the angel of death." - Noir
Saint Thoth
They do have origins, just add the origin tag. However, that origin is in relation to it's original position, not the map's origin.
- Banned
- #74
So the original origin of the original object becomes the 'new origin' which the cloned object's origins refer to instead of the map's (0,0,0)?
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #75
Oh wow! Jeeze, that's gonna be tough to work with, but if it can be done, I may put level2 on hold, and try to stick a gateroom inside Edana.
Anywho:
Alright, while working on Thornlands Level2, I fixed some things, and integrated them into the level 1 version.
Biggest bug in Thornlands is that the Spider Queen often fails to spawn. This happens so often, several nubs are convinced there is no Spider Queen at all. :roll:
Changes:
- Reduced spider waves in queen chamber to 1 life each, with no spawn delay
- Added fourth wave to compensate
- Added env_shake and audio que for each spider wave (to let you know you're progressing)
- Lowered Spider Queen spawn (as sometimes she would get stuck in the ceiling, then proceed to walk off the map)
- Spider Queen always spawns now (thoroughly tested)
- Added orchestral strike to Spider Queen's appearance
- Added fanfair to Spider Queen's death
- Added a Skeleton to Oldro's Closet. (spawns when door is broken)
- Fixed BookBoss spawn by exchanging old BookBoss for five small bats.
- Added spiders to eggs outside queen chamber (spiders spawn when eggs are broken)
Shouldn't be much harder than the original, and won't suffer the same bugs.
Download BSP (3.6mb) [samelink]: http://www.thothie.com/ms/thornlands.bsp
Download Ent (10k): http://www.thothie.com/ms/thornlands.ent
Anyone have documentation for the various MS entities? mstrig_relay (with its ability to generate random events) and ms_npcscript (as used for directing orcs in Helena) seem particularly interesting.
__________
"I have always observed a singular accord between supercelestial ideals and subterranean behavior." - Montaigne
Saint Thoth
Anywho:
Alright, while working on Thornlands Level2, I fixed some things, and integrated them into the level 1 version.
Biggest bug in Thornlands is that the Spider Queen often fails to spawn. This happens so often, several nubs are convinced there is no Spider Queen at all. :roll:
Changes:
- Reduced spider waves in queen chamber to 1 life each, with no spawn delay
- Added fourth wave to compensate
- Added env_shake and audio que for each spider wave (to let you know you're progressing)
- Lowered Spider Queen spawn (as sometimes she would get stuck in the ceiling, then proceed to walk off the map)
- Spider Queen always spawns now (thoroughly tested)
- Added orchestral strike to Spider Queen's appearance
- Added fanfair to Spider Queen's death
- Added a Skeleton to Oldro's Closet.
(spawns when door is broken)- Fixed BookBoss spawn by exchanging old BookBoss for five small bats.
- Added spiders to eggs outside queen chamber (spiders spawn when eggs are broken)
Shouldn't be much harder than the original, and won't suffer the same bugs.
Download BSP (3.6mb) [samelink]: http://www.thothie.com/ms/thornlands.bsp
Download Ent (10k): http://www.thothie.com/ms/thornlands.ent
Anyone have documentation for the various MS entities? mstrig_relay (with its ability to generate random events) and ms_npcscript (as used for directing orcs in Helena) seem particularly interesting.
__________
"I have always observed a singular accord between supercelestial ideals and subterranean behavior." - Montaigne
Saint Thoth
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