God

[meazum]

What do you think about the christian religion and do you think that god does exist?


I can begin by telling you that I'm almost certain he/she does really exist.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Too bad there isn't a "I'm not sure" option, because my 'no-feeling' is like 60% and my 'yes-feeling' is about 40%... So I voted no due to the lack of "I'm not sure"...

 

[Con Artist]

Just for a future note, try capitalizing your 'g' because if I was thee almighty I'd strike you down the moment you lower caps my G.

And I have no comment for Christianity as I am only Catholic. :roll:

 

[limitgenesis]

yes

i belive everything has a start and there is no other explanation for the beginning of time

 

[Thothie]

A 'does God exist' discussion with a bunch of young gamers... Am I that bored?... Yes, I'm that bored. I should really be mapping, or working on proggies, or something, but I'm also that tired... This, on the other hand, should not require any artful use of the intellect.

Yes, God exists in that He is a non-material entity in the collective consciousness of man that, beyond any doubt, has as greater effect on our daily lives than do most physically perceivable objects - between His affects on history, motivation, politics, and culture, etc.

But does He exist as an all powerful being that created the universe and imperceptible realms beyond?

Does it matter?

There's a significant proportion of the population that has faith that their particular variant of God exists, that He has this power, and He is revered as such, and this affects their attitudes and actions, (even if, not always in a positive manner.) So, far all intents and purposes, He not only exists for those people, but for those of us affected by those people (which is, pretty much all of us). If, in turn, someone says he receives a revelation from God - tis not important whether or not he believes it, but whether or not anyone believes him in turn. God is belief, God is faith, these things have real tangible power, thus God is real, or at the very least, His presence is real.

This can all be argued as subjectivism, or the result of some global delusion carried from the beginning of time, but that argument itself is the very definition of subjectivism. Any objective thought is dependant on the observer's confirmation, and in effect, the concept is so ingrained into our minds that it holds all the power of reality. Collectivism too, can be argued against, but only as long as one is able to reject the premise of a common reality.

So, in the end, since God is defined as a non-material being, of purely spiritual power, there's no room for debate on the subject. There's no controversy, as it is the very power of the believe in Him that is His very existence, and the affect it has on us all cannot be denied.

Now, on the other hand, if you want to refine that question, if you wanted to debate, for instance, *which* God is the true god(s), or what God's true motivations and desires are or if his perceived existence is a positive or negative *then* you have a subject for debate.

Personally, I like Bob.

On a side note: Oh I could come up with an infinite number of other explanations for the beginning of the universe - one shouldn't hang one's faith on the unknown - but the known. For instance, the mystery as to why you see out of your own eyes, and not of those of the person next to you, is certainly a more tangible evidence of divinity than any so distant as the beginning of time, and one that is considerably less understood.

Shall we begin the abortion, gay, and evolution debates now?
__________
"Well, that'll either kill that thread dead or set it on fire." - he thought to himself, hoping for the former
Saint Thoth

 

[ceriux]

wow, i couldnt agree with your post more Thothie... expessially the fist part.

 

[Con Artist]

Well Thothie what do you say to the non believers who want physical evidence and rely on science to give them answers? Ever argue with an Atheist? It's hard to convince the non believers.

But I'm willing to hear you out to get some pointers.

 

[HomestarR]

Well Thothie what do you say to the non believers who want physical evidence and rely on science to give them answers? Ever argue with an Atheist? It's hard to convince the non believers.

But I'm willing to hear you out to get some pointers.

He isn't trying to prove God exists, he is only proving that his prescence exists.

Basically, he exists because we act under his influence, even if he isn't real, he is real to some people, and that makes him real, because the peoples actions are real.

Basically, he might not actually exist, but his prescence exists because of all the faith people have.

 

[jack hawkins]

So in other words, we belive he is real so he must be real??.

Personaly i dont belive in god, and i know this sounds stupid but
if there was no religions in the world the world would be a better
place, if you look back in history and see how many wars were caused
over religion. Right now there is a big proplem in Africa and there has
been for awhile.

The second world war started because of hitlers religion and faith

 

[Kuroneko]

If you don't mind, do you think you could elaborate on that last comment, hawkins?

 

[Crow]

Thothie i think you set it on fire. Just wait till witness gets here

EDIT: and btw, your comic there proves the "god is greatest by definition so he must exist" part wrong. I don't think anyone has mentioned that yet.

 

[Kuroneko]

Thothie i think you set it on fire. Just wait till witness gets here

EDIT: and btw, your comic there proves the "god is greatest by definition so he must exist" part wrong. I don't think anyone has mentioned that yet.

The comic was in reference to "God exists because we believe he exists"

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Nice one, Kuroneko
How do you keep finding all that stuff

 

[Kuroneko]

Stockpiles

 

[Thothie]

Smokey says, only you can prevent forum fires...

Nein nein nein, that comic refers to the old Saint Thomas Aquinas theological argument - ie. something that exists is greater than something that doesn't - so if God is greater than all, by definition, he must exist (hence the reference to oft mentioned "fool" of Psalms). And I always had issue with that, because I never could find the perfect pizza... And surely the pizza I can find is more perfect that one I can't.

However, if God is defined as a purely spiritual being - something that is beyond existence in the material sense, then you cannot deny the power of His presence though His believers, and in turn His existence, power, and presence in the collective Jungian consciousness, as it were, that forms our common reality. ...Or at least not without denying reality itself.

As for the second world war, Pope not-so-Innocent II, and such, I didn't say this fact was always necessarily a positive thing, but both are indeed proof of the argument. Denying the existence of God is one thing, denying the value of His existence is quite another.

It's worth pointing out, in religions defense, however, Western Civilization wouldn't exist without it. (The Mongols would have wiped it out, for starters) - but there are of course many who would argue that this isn't a positive thing either.

Granted the best thing about that particular position, is that it can be read either way and lets you take both sides of the argument, and just piss everyone off. But tis what I do. Tis less about stating a position, and more about making the reader think on his own.
__________
"Fighting single-mindedness since 1972."
Saint Thoth

 

[Thothie]

Let's all pause a moment, to worship the one true God on this day of our savior's birth:

Hello Cthulhu

For some reason, this seemed the perfect thread to wish the other side of the planet a merry Xmass... Before the Great Old One's come and devour them all. (Being Pacific Standard Time myself, I must wait another few dozen hours.)
__________
"Dr. Kill is the Grinch that stole MS Christmas! "
Saint Thoth

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Cthulhu hahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Witness of God]

No doubt truly Thothie is wiser than me for one his age and intellect is very capturing. Good job Thothie at keeping peoples heads toward truth. Many are lost when people dont stand up for what they believe in. Most of the generation are followers.

 

[Zen]

"...you cannot deny the power of His presence though His believers..."

You ain't lying! I'd be hard pressed to browse through history books to find a war without the root cause lying with religion.

 

[Kengou]

revolutionary war, civil war, vietnam, all of the france vs. Britain wars, Texas vs. Mexico, etc. etc.

Those are just a few I conjured up right away. Gimme a little time and I could give you like ten more without looking them up.


I was holding this back, but I guess I could share my position now. I firmly believe that Christianity (at least the pure form, or the one that follows the pope's teachings word for word) is evil. And the reason; it's a cult where the one man, arbitrarily elected by his peers, tells the majority of the world what to believe, how to go about believing it, and most importantly of all, who to hate. The pope has the power to outcast gays and jews among many many others.

Personally, I believe in what the U.S. stands for, and that's freedom. I believe that every person should think for themselves. I don't really believe in any of the teachings of the bible, in my mind there is a god, and what this god represents is everything we cannot explain, such as why the universe is structured the way it is, with atoms, and gravitons and whatnot. My true beliefs, however, reside in science. As science is able to explain more and more, this god is slowly destroyed. Science is the search for the truth, and that is a noble mission. Listening to the pope, in my mind, is giving up on the search. Once you take what the pope says as truth, science means nothing, and our progression reaches a standstill.

Gays and Jews and people of any religion or preference are people too, and can contribute a great deal to society, but only if the rest of humanity can cast aside this unprecedented bias towards them and accept that this, all of us together, are the human race. I'm not saying that the people following those religions are evil, I don't really care. It's their choice. But it's when they tell other people that they are wrong, and they are evil, that's when the followers become evil to me. Evil, in my mind, is when an organized group of people, as part of our own race, works to slow the progress of our race. And progress, in my mind, is the gradual evolution of our species into an accepting, and united community, whose goal is to better itself. Petty arguments between religions, such as Islam, Judeism, and Christianity, are catalysts for that reduction in progress. They are at the heart of bias.

Buddhism is the world's perfect religion, not because of what it says god is, nor how it practices it's belief, but because it is accepting. Buddhism allows for every person to have their own vision of god, which means that Judeism, Islam, Christianity, Paganism, Protestants, and all other religions are just faces for the same god. What this means for them is that everyone is a buddhist, no matter what they say they are, and everyone can try to please their "face" of god however they want,there is no right way. The result is that their are no infidels, there are no outcasts, there are no superiors, and there is no bias.

But knowing that the world isn't perfect, and people won't just change their religion at the drop of a hat, I don't care what religion you prefer. I don't care what you think of anyone else. I especially don't care what you think of my idea, because I believe in my idea, and as long as I don't tell you what to do, what to believe, or how to act, I'm doing my part. There is only one thing each person has that should not be controlled by anyone, and that is their beliefs. Each person is different, whether by religion, race, sexual preference, etc., they all have the ability to contribute to our race, and excluding them from humanity is the worst crime a human can perform.

But don't listen to me, believe whatever you want to believe! Just don't push it on others.

Merry ChristmaHauniKwanziCa!!!

 

[jack hawkins]

ooooo long lol

revolutionary war, civil war, vietnam, all of the france vs. Britain wars, Texas vs. Mexico

maybe they wernt cause by religion but each side belive that god was on there side for what they were doing, now how is thousands and thousands of american troops blowing the S**t out of the vietmanise because they were on a religious war with north Veitmanise, tell me how god could back that

 

[Kengou]

umm... More like thousands and thousands of Americans being blown the sh*t out of by Vietnamese. But that wasn't my point. :roll:

 

[jack hawkins]

Okay my love, i hope you had a good chirstmas and a happy new year

 

[Kuroneko]

religous war? I coulda sworn the north was invading the south to unify vietnam and make everyone commies..


my bad.

 

[jack hawkins]

yep your bad