Level restrictions on weapons

[ITS'aME'aMARIO!!!!]

This is a silly unrealistic restriction, and a very sloppy way of forcing people to use weapons you should of implemented properly in the first place.

A weapon is a weapon, if you can pick it up, you should be able to swing it. A better idea instead of just not being able to swing the weapon, would be that it does the same damage as a cheap weapon until your skill increases.

I come from original EQ so i'm before the days of silly restrictions in RPGs such as 'required skill to wield', and that is one of the reasons im so turned off by modern MMORPGS. (yes, EQ never had weapon or armor restrictions untill after Verant left to work on eq2 (after kunark was released, the original dev team started work on eq2 and they left the new sony team to make the new expansions.))

i concur

 

[Evaan]

If we wanted to remove all unrealistic limitations, we should remove the leveling all together, and have a fixed damage for everything without any increase in hit points or damage.

This is a fantasy game, and it follows the RPG genre. It's a classic game that originally had classes, where you as a Rogue could not use Swords or Axes, and Warriors couldn't backstab.

A weapon is a weapon, yes, but the Battle Axe is far greater than the Small Axe. The damage is too great compared to the enemies the player face at say, level 6 or 9.

The battle axe is more meant for when you're attacking foes like orcs and bandits and walking ashes and more.

We level restrict weapons because there is a variation to enemy health and damage.

 

[Thothie]

At the same time, we shouldn't go out of our way to be unrealistic though - I mean, we kinda broke the unrealistic bank with the arrow climbing.

I r having an idea on how to deal with the inability to report level restrictions (which is going to be worse, once we enter our period of being unable to sell things)... But it will require a lot of work... And since this is your evil brain child...

What you'll need to do is go into all the stores, and make sure each vendor only sells weapons of a particular level requirement (I think they are, more or less, already setup this way) - then, when the vendor opens his store, I can have him say, "All my weapons require skill XX or higher." - and maybe we'll have at least a little less freaking on our hands (save from all the players who quit because they don't have any weapons in their inventories they can use anymore.)

PS. The small axe is a superior weapon to the battle axe in my experience. It's lighter, faster, and more accurate... Or I should say - it used to be - I haven't looked at anything you've done with it since.

[15] ms_Kuroneko: smallarms_stiletto, eh?
[15] ms_Kuroneko: Error (SERVER): CMSMonster::Script_ExecuteCmd() --> Script: edana/weaponsmith, a
ddstoreitem: non-existant item smallarms_stiletto!

Great, now he's blaming me.

 

[Evaan]

I'd really not want in-game characters referring to game mechanics.
I'd rather have an echo that says "This merchant sell weapons with requirements up to level 9" or something like that.

As for the Stiletto, I included it in the item list. It must've gone missing during the zip-up of the release.

 

[Thothie]

Ya didn't send me an items.txt

...I think... Yeah - I can actually make it echo to the hud from the same event.

If ya can setup each of the weapons merchants that way, and then add, to each weapon merchant a

setvard SELL_WEAPON_LEVEL XX

And then add to monsters/base_vendor, in the basevendor_offerstore event:

{ basevendor_offerstore	//1: Offer Target 

	local L_SERVICE 0
	if( STORE_BUYMENU ) setvard L_SERVICE buy
	if( STORE_SELLMENU ) stradd L_SERVICE ;sell

	//add this line here:
	if ( SELL_WEAPON_LEVEL > 0 ) gplayermessage PARAM1 This vendor's weapons require proficiency level SELL_WEAPON_LEVEL


	npcstore.offer STORE_NAME PARAM1 L_SERVICE trade
}

That'd give a little bright green message warning in their hud.

On the multi-purpose vendors you'd want to be sure that vard only got set for the weapon-selling variant.

 

[The Man In Black]

ZOMG! I see an item scriptname! EXPLOIT ALL PLZ

 

[Evaan]

Ya didn't send me an items.txt

...I think...

I did... What is it that you say around here again... You fail?

Yeah - I can actually make it echo to the hud from the same event.

If ya can setup each of the weapons merchants that way, and then add, to each weapon merchant a

setvard SELL_WEAPON_LEVEL XX

And then add to monsters/base_vendor, in the basevendor_offerstore event:

...

That'd give a little bright green message warning in their hud.

On the multi-purpose vendors you'd want to be sure that vard only got set for the weapon-selling variant.

Sure, I can do that.

 

[Revenir]

So far I'm having mixed results. Some items make me feel like "Yeah, they are pretty uber, I don't mind waiting untell sword 15 to use em* but others like the Calrun mace make me want to slap you in the face with a trout.... The mace itself isn't that great a weapon *Atleast in all my experince with it* and from what I've heard from all the other MS players who've I've asked aboot it, its the best mace out there. If your going to have level restrictions thats fine, but make some of the lower, noob-friendly weapons WORTH using, rather than making us be FORCED to use em, kay?

 

[Thothie]

Meh, need to warn me when ya add a new item. Any others?

Be nice to have some sort of SVN system, but I suspect would cause more problems that it solved. Items.txt is one of the files we're both likely to be into.

One think you could do that maybe more interesting than this, next month, is add a bunch of quests, as I very rarely fudge with the old NPCs much. I would, for instance, very much like a way to get the Felewyn Ring from the LotL without killing him. (Maybe coupled with some backstory as to how he got it.)

 

[Evaan]

I added a smallarms_stiletto as a 4th tier Small Arms. It's added to the items.txt file, however, if you have added any new items, just add "smallarms_stiletto" to your own items.txt

I wrote this in the first PM I sent you about my release.
Double-fail

I'd love to work on more quests now. That was my next step after balancing the weapons.

As for the Mace of Calrian - it might not be the best blunt in it's base damage, but it has a massive power attack, and it's fast. I think level 15 is justified. It's quite the trouble getting it too, at least by yourself.

If a weapon has level 15 restrictions, it means you shouldn't be able to get it (unless you have some great, successful healing strategy) at say, level 12.

 

[Revenir]

What I ment was more along the lines of "Level restrictions are fine as long as the weapons available are worth using." As it stands theres nothing low level in-game that makes me, a low level character, want to go "Hey thats neat, I'll use it." Its more of "Well...I'm being punished for being low level so I guess I'll have to use this untell my guild can help me level enough to use something thats atleast decent and worth using."

 

[Evaan]

The system will require tweaking, naturally, and the level requirements on quest weapons are subject to change.

 

[Thothie]

It is true the guy you have to get the Calrian Mace from is level 20, at least. The only better 1h blunt in the game is the Lightning Rod (which actually isn't better, against undead).

What's this Great Sword thing - and why does it's player model look like the old ice blade?

 

[Evaan]

What the? It's supposed to look like the Highsword - the bigger, two handed sword.

Edit: Damn it... It's using the wrong submodel on p_swords >.<
It's supposed to be 5.

 

[Thothie]

The bastard sword? Meh- gotta be careful when playing with world sub model indexes, they are tricky. Plus had other plans for that viewmodel - whad you do with the old viewmodel?

 

[Thothie]

Gah, and why is Foglund selling Lesser Ice Blades!? ><

 

[Evaan]

I didn't change Foglund in any way, so I'm not to be held responsible for that one

Level warnings coming up soon.
I chose to seperate them with commas, so they know the exact level restrictions.

I.e. 3,6,9,12 instead of 3-12 (spaces would be eliminated, it seems).

 

[Thothie]

There's no level restriction on the liceblade, so on my latest test baby char, I've been pwning with it... The really bad thing is - I don't see it in the script, or any of the base scripts... Something really funky going on there. >_>

 

[Evaan]

Ah, bugger... the sword must've slipped my fingers, so it's missing the requirements.

But Foglund doesn't sell any Ice Blades on my side (official release).

 

[Sabre]

One thing I must gripe about with regards to this system is the restriction level on the Spiderblade. It requires sword level 15, but by the time you've reached that level you have probably moved on from spiders anyways...
I've always wondered why it was in nightmare_thornlands too...Anyone strong enough to survive there definitely doesn't need one...
[/minor rant]

 

[Evaan]

I too feel the Spiderblade is in the wrong place, but its location is the reason for its level requirement.

Personally, I'd like to have it moved to some place more relevant, and its level requirement lowered to 12, unless its effect is too great, then it'll remain at 15 (but hopefully still moved).

 

[tehrilez]

I really, really hate this new system. A lot.





Takes all of the fun out of the game. I say, if you can lift it, you should be able to use it. IRL if you were able to lift it, nothing would block you from using it. A sign wouldn't pop up in front of your face saying " WRONG LEVEL WE'RE FORCING YOU TO LEVEL UP 5 TIMES BEFORE YOU CAN SWING IT. "


I'm sorry, but I'm not getting the new patch. This is ridiculous. Takes the fun out of the game for people that are new, defeat their first boss, and are reluctant to be able to pick up their award, only to find they can't use it.







doesntreallymattercauseIdonthaveanFNcharacterandmyfriendsarestickingwithA


/endrant.

 

[Sabre]

And, after seeing this in effect...It looks like this is going to widen the level gap even more...Those who can use their weapons keep on hacking and slashing away, while those who cannot use their primary weapon anymore are forced to downgrade.

 

[Shurik3n]

Takes the fun out of the game for people that are new, defeat their first boss, and are reluctant to be able to pick up their award, only to find they can't use it.

Any 'boss' a new player is going to be able to beat alone, and thus deserve the entire reward, isn't going to drop something they cant use. If your strong enough to kill something, chances are pretty good your strong enough to use what it drops. Unless of course, for example, you specialize in swords and you get a high level dagger, then you might not be able to use it right away, but you use swords, so what does it matter... just think of it as encouragement to level up that small arms skill.

EDIT:

And, after seeing this in effect...It looks like this is going to widen the level gap even more...Those who can use their weapons keep on hacking and slashing away, while those who cannot use their primary weapon anymore are forced to downgrade.

Yeah... until they spend the hour or so it takes to get the few levels they need. Seriously, its not going to make a huge difference in the level gap.

 

[tehrilez]

You're just digging MS:C into a deeper ditch with these patches, these level caps and gauntlet map lockings that are on by default aren't any fun. We should have the option to disable them if we want.


Not EVERYONE likes this "Role Playing Experience"


If you can call it that.

Takes the fun out of the game for people that are new, defeat their first boss, and are reluctant to be able to pick up their award, only to find they can't use it.

Any 'boss' a new player is going to be able to beat alone, and thus deserve the entire reward, isn't going to drop something they cant use. If your strong enough to kill something, chances are pretty good your strong enough to use what it drops. Unless of course, for example, you specialize in swords and you get a high level dagger, then you might not be able to use it right away, but you use swords, so what does it matter... just think of it as encouragement to level up that small arms skill.

And not EVERYONE is gonna want to level up, either.


I have played on servers with good groups of players. Im not as strong as them, and I STILL manage to do decently on the hard boss maps. We play for HOURS when we get the chance. Its a VERY small chance any of us level up. You have to sit for HOURS to get a level up, even with us all being in the same party and having the same amount of chance to kill monsters.

Im guessing you're one of the high level people, that couldn't give a rats ass about the people who have trouble leveling on your new and improved gauntlet and boss maps, which are 3x harder for "an extra challenge"