Level restrictions on weapons

[Thothie]

Who's to say you won't earn your equipment? Fight the hard boss, get the reward?

What hard bosses are you fighting, killing, and earning rewards before level 12? (The highest level cap Evaan currently has imposed).

Timidus Textor is the meanest boss you can conceivably face at level 12. Nothing in his chest is high level. I think the only way you could get screwed in that situation would be if you had 10 level 8 players on the server, took out Timidus, and none of them could use the higher end weapons inside the chest. This doesn’t seem a likely situation. (And indeed, more or less impossible, if as you say, you aren’t going to download any more patches.)

you wont be forced to say, raise sword to 20 to use nova blade

There were already several level restrictions for high end weapons under the previous patches. Restrictions for high end weapons are nothing new.

So far Baby Thoth XI has managed to go from level 1 to level 10 in about two hours (which is slower than usual [1-20 in 6hr], but not insanely slow). The only level restriction that really slowed him down was getting to 4th level for the sharp knife, which I think Evaan has since dropped to level 3. (More often he was slowed down by people trying to PL him, and doing a really horrible job of it.)

Bring back specialization

We never had specialization.


I'd like to allow you to keep using the weapon and just have your hit chances or what not suck arse until you gained the proper skill to wield the weapon (with some similar notifiaction), but that simply isn't possible under the current weapon registration system.

 

[tehrilez]

I'd like to allow you to keep using the weapon and just have your hit chances or what not suck arse until you gained the proper skill to wield the weapon (with some similar notifiaction), but that simply isn't possible under the current weapon registration system.

I didn't care when it was say, just raise axe to 15 for golden axe but for stuff like nova blade you have to raise it considerably for all of its attacks, not to mention fire. Can they at least be toned down?

also, *notification.

 

[Thothie]

They already were... But the Novablade's requirement is 15, not 20 (and I suspect it has been 15 for quite some time, but I can't get at the archives from here to check). 15 is a pretty damned low level to be killing Demonicus at (a 6000-24000hp boss who has attacks ranging from 50hp-600hp)

 

[tehrilez]

I thought you needed like, 30 fire to use volcano?

 

[Jelly]

That is correct.

 

[The Man In Black]

THOTHIE HOW DARE YOU MAKE US HAVE GOOD STATS TO USE GOOD WEAPONS! I WANT TO BE ABLE TO USE ALL WEAPONS AT LEVEL 1 LAWL!

 

[Thothie]

Constructive...

30 to use volcano. 15 to swing the tree of fire.

 

[The Man In Black]

I'm ok with it ;-)

 

[Brad]

Personally I think it's a great idea. I'll have to start another new character to enjoy this!

 

[elfstone222]

You need to understand, that 30 fire req. is a good one. Summons a volcano (hardest spell to prepare), also stabs the enemy for really high damage, AND the enemies don't run from that volcano. That's the best fire spell in the game, 30 fire isn't too much to ask.

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

That's the best fire spell in the game, 30 fire isn't too much to ask.

Just spend a few days in *spoiler*, you'll have enough fire then.

 

[elfstone222]

If we're talking about the same *spoiler* I don't think that should even be a map.

But yeah, 30 fire isn't hard if you're focusing.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

THOTHIE HOW DARE YOU MAKE US HAVE GOOD STATS TO USE GOOD WEAPONS! I WANT TO BE ABLE TO USE ALL WEAPONS AT LEVEL 1 LAWL!

It works in Oblivion.

 

[villager]

*Cough*Singleplayer*Cough*

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

If we're talking about the same *spoiler* I don't think that should even be a map.

If we are, then you'll notice that that certain *spoiler* has had all the XP taken off of it. At least that's what I've been told.

 

[JoMama]

I've already talked to some people who are angry because they are now suddenly unable to use weapons they've been using before. Placing all the weapons into this level prerequisite system is too sudden and I definately don't think the weapons are set up for that sort of thing. I voted a big 'No' on this because I simply find it to be a lazy solution.

As others have noted, it's very unrealistic. I don't understand how exactly an adventurer would decide that they can't use an item that they picked up and volunteer themselves not to use it until later. It seems like it would simply lead to wasted space trying to hold the dead weight that was a sword/axe/etc and it seems like a waste of time to realize after going through an entire quest that he/she simply cannot make use of their prize.

It's also very unrealistic to simply tell the player the level they have to be so and so level to make use of an object, but at the same time, it's annoying to keep the information from the player and expect them to want to continue leveling blindly without any hint of improvement (ex: "you lack the arcane skills to...")

Secondly, this seems like it's simply another over-complication in the rules of what each player can make use of. MasterSword already has the strength of the weapon slowly increasing with level, it already has hit and miss ratios which change upon leveling, and it even has weight restrictions dependent on the player. I don't understand why those can't simply be tweaked to lessen the chance of power leveling at the lower levels. I would honestly recommend starting the player with a low hit ratio with higher weapons, and have the hit ratio improve on a less subtle basis than just blatently tell someone new to the game "No, you aren't allowed to use this weapon."

I understand that there's a very big issue with power levelling all the way up the level 20, but this solution feels like it's a very lazy and uncreative way to solve the problem. Effective as it may or may not be, I would probably give up on playing a game if I could collect nothing but completely useless weapons.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

I've already talked to some people who are angry because they are now suddenly unable to use weapons they've been using before. Placing all the weapons into this level prerequisite system is too sudden and I definately don't think the weapons are set up for that sort of thing. I voted a big 'No' on this because I simply find it to be a lazy solution.

As others have noted, it's very unrealistic. I don't understand how exactly an adventurer would decide that they can't use an item that they picked up and volunteer themselves not to use it until later. It seems like it would simply lead to wasted space trying to hold the dead weight that was a sword/axe/etc and it seems like a waste of time to realize after going through an entire quest that he/she simply cannot make use of their prize.

It's also very unrealistic to simply tell the player the level they have to be so and so level to make use of an object, but at the same time, it's annoying to keep the information from the player and expect them to want to continue leveling blindly without any hint of improvement (ex: "you lack the arcane skills to...")

Secondly, this seems like it's simply another over-complication in the rules of what each player can make use of. MasterSword already has the strength of the weapon slowly increasing with level, it already has hit and miss ratios which change upon leveling, and it even has weight restrictions dependent on the player. I don't understand why those can't simply be tweaked to lessen the chance of power leveling at the lower levels. I would honestly recommend starting the player with a low hit ratio with higher weapons, and have the hit ratio improve on a less subtle basis than just blatently tell someone new to the game "No, you aren't allowed to use this weapon."

I understand that there's a very big issue with power levelling all the way up the level 20, but this solution feels like it's a very lazy and uncreative way to solve the problem. Effective as it may or may not be, I would probably give up on playing a game if I could collect nothing but completely useless weapons.

Qft. I haven't seen anybody else put it as clear as this before.

 

[villager]

Eh.... god damn, I do agree. You just don't simply "Lack the skill" to use a weapon. BUT, I doubt this is a lazy solution, but more of a simple and easy fix since we only have Thothie, our one coder, and everyone else seems to be volunteers.

Weight is almost not a problem. At a level 15, I'm carrying 4-5 different, extremely heavy weapons. Hit/miss ratio doesn't go down drasticly each level, so theres barely a change for that.

If you got yourself a Nova blade and you can't use it, whats wrong with leveling your swordsmanship? From what I remember, the level required to use Nova blade is ONLY 15. If you were strong enough to get yourself a Nova blade, I think you can stand to level your swordsmanship in harder areas.

Not to mention some serious hardcode issues, more than half my ideas were shot down because it conflicts with the game.

 

[Shadeska]

Wow...every MMO I've ever played just disappeared in a poof of logic. GJ!

On a side not: I voted yes... These are powerful weapons for umm, "powerful" people. Really though, is 15 sword too much to ask for a GIB? That weapon alone will get you through foutpost in a two-person party. (True story)

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

If it was easy to impliment, I'd be all for the "You lack the skills to swing this weapon effectively" idea. ie; you can be level one and have a sylvian blade, but you'll do minimal damage and have a much higher missrate until you get swords to whatever you need (9 I think it is).

 

[Evaan]

if level req is not SKILL_LVL
{ insert lousy attributes here }

But then again... If a weapon is not worth swinging, why bother swinging it in the first place?

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

That weapon alone will get you through foutpost in a two-person party. (True story)

So? You should be able to get through foutpost alone with that weapon. Oh wait, you can.

 

[JoMama]

if level req is not SKILL_LVL
{ insert lousy attributes here }

But then again... If a weapon is not worth swinging, why bother swinging it in the first place?

This is probably where "hit-and-miss" would come in handy. The weapon can do the same amount of damage it could've done, but at the same time, it's an extremely risky chance (1 in 20 chance of actually hitting something) especially when taking on hordes of orcs or any really strong enemy.

However, the 'miss' ratio should decrease drastically as the player's skill increases (level by level, until the player reaches the weapon's intended skill), so that the player understands that if he/she simply practices this certain skill with other weapons, they can make use of this extremely powerful new weapon.

Edit: Also, can I ask why I simply can't use a sharp knife when I first start the game as adventurer? Despite that it's not even logical, it doesn't seem very fun to have to PAY 3 gold just so I can weakly attempt to level my character to a point of using a sharp knife which I FOUND (in Edana no less) Now just imagine how angry it would make me if I bought the sharp one for the 15 gold that it costs... in Edana no less.

 

[Thothie]

Actually, I was thinking just reducing its stats to the next highest weapon in the same line you can actually use.

So if someone tosses ye a perfect hugger dagger or a flame lick at level 4, it'll work like a Sharp Knife. By level 9, it'll work like a sharp hugger dagger, then come level 12, it'll act like, well, normal.

But again, no can do under the current weapon registration system.

Really the low level requirements have had almost no affect on my new character.

On my main FN character, I've been hit up with weapon restrictions vs. Greater Thunderaxes and Rune Axes, but both those weapons had level limitations built in at their inception. Evaan's changes, again, for the most part, only apply to lower end weapons.

 

[Durak]

ASo if someone tosses ye a perfect hugger dagger or a flame lick at level 4, it'll work like a Sharp Knife. By level 9, it'll work like a sharp hugger dagger, then come level 12, it'll act like, well, normal.

Might confuse a lot of newbies.