Moving to the Svencoop engine

[Solokiller]

That's what i thought as well. We discussed mod support about a year ago and he argued for mod support. I don't know when or why he did a complete 180 though. Not that it's hard to fix the current compatibility problems.

 

[Thothie]

This got buried for some reason, or I woulda replied sooner (granted both I and immediate family have been bed ridden for the bulk of holidays, so it's been chaos.)

Long story short, I was, well... Afraid of all this. I suppose I'll PM Sniper and at least give him the heads up that we're jacking an old version of his game, and he can pass it on to someone who cares.

If there's an open source alternative to the Svencoop engine, as your Git kinda suggests, I'd love to go with that instead. Only downside would be that we would have to pirate the HL1 materials we use in a new package, but I suspect Valve would let that slide (or at least I've not heard of them going after all the others who have been doing the same).

At the moment, I'm really reluctant to launch the new engine, as we have a critical security flaw that I can't seem to get our coder to come out of semi-retirement for, and my half-assed hacked code fix for it seems to just add too much overhead. An engine migration would probably bring a wave of new players, along with new hackers, and the security flaw in question puts the servers themselves in danger at the OS level (and, in fact, seems to have already killed them once - sending RKS on a "batten down the hatches" security spree so thorough that it threatens even the forums.)

But we're in a losing battle with the Valve engine. This string space issue seems to be the latest in a never ending series of walls - and this one seems to be particularly tall, given that it means we basically can't make global item modifications, without taking a similar approach to Trump's declared policy on new regulations.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

This string space issue seems to be the latest in a never ending series of walls - and this one seems to be particularly tall, given that it means we basically can't make global item modifications, without taking a similar approach to Trump's declared policy on new regulations.

+1 lol

 

[Solokiller]

This got buried for some reason, or I woulda replied sooner (granted both I and immediate family have been bed ridden for the bulk of holidays, so it's been chaos.)

I'm sad to hear that, I hope everything's alright.

Long story short, I was, well... Afraid of all this. I suppose I'll PM Sniper and at least give him the heads up that we're jacking an old version of his game, and he can pass it on to someone who cares.

Sniper calls the shots so there is nobody to pass it along to.

If there's an open source alternative to the Svencoop engine, as your Git kinda suggests, I'd love to go with that instead. Only downside would be that we would have to pirate the HL1 materials we use in a new package, but I suspect Valve would let that slide (or at least I've not heard of them going after all the others who have been doing the same).

My prototype engine is nowhere near ready, and despite my best efforts will never be both a complete replacement and legal. I've tried to contact Valve but i've received no replies, not even when i told them what i was doing.

At the moment, I'm really reluctant to launch the new engine, as we have a critical security flaw that I can't seem to get our coder to come out of semi-retirement for, and my half-assed hacked code fix for it seems to just add too much overhead. An engine migration would probably bring a wave of new players, along with new hackers, and the security flaw in question puts the servers themselves in danger at the OS level (and, in fact, seems to have already killed them once - sending RKS on a "batten down the hatches" security spree so thorough that it threatens even the forums.)

What kind of flaw is this? Is this in the engine or in your game code?

But we're in a losing battle with the Valve engine. This string space issue seems to be the latest in a never ending series of walls - and this one seems to be particularly tall, given that it means we basically can't make global item modifications, without taking a similar approach to Trump's declared policy on new regulations.

Well, the string pool i suggested should solve that problem, it's near identical to Source's approach.

 

[Thothie]

Drat, and thanks.

At the moment, I'm really reluctant to launch the new engine, as we have a critical security flaw that I can't seem to get our coder to come out of semi-retirement for, and my half-assed hacked code fix for it seems to just add too much overhead. An engine migration would probably bring a wave of new players, along with new hackers, and the security flaw in question puts the servers themselves in danger at the OS level (and, in fact, seems to have already killed them once - sending RKS on a "batten down the hatches" security spree so thorough that it threatens even the forums.)

What kind of flaw is this? Is this in the engine or in your game code?

Code side, involves the way the scripting system works. If you wanna help (or just take a gander), send me a PM - I'm entirely desperate enough to send you our complete source and details, but beware that this is some of the most nightmarish code to have ever marred the face of the Earth, in addition to only compiling in VS2003.

But we're in a losing battle with the Valve engine. This string space issue seems to be the latest in a never ending series of walls - and this one seems to be particularly tall, given that it means we basically can't make global item modifications, without taking a similar approach to Trump's declared policy on new regulations.

Well, the string pool i suggested should solve that problem, it's near identical to Source's approach.

I wouldn't know how to implement that, especially with no engine source, but the older version of Svencoop we have for development seems to fix it. I don't know if it fixes it entirely or just gives us more breathing room though.

 

[Solokiller]

Drat, and thanks.

At the moment, I'm really reluctant to launch the new engine, as we have a critical security flaw that I can't seem to get our coder to come out of semi-retirement for, and my half-assed hacked code fix for it seems to just add too much overhead. An engine migration would probably bring a wave of new players, along with new hackers, and the security flaw in question puts the servers themselves in danger at the OS level (and, in fact, seems to have already killed them once - sending RKS on a "batten down the hatches" security spree so thorough that it threatens even the forums.)

What kind of flaw is this? Is this in the engine or in your game code?

Code side, involves the way the scripting system works. If you wanna help (or just take a gander), send me a PM - I'm entirely desperate enough to send you our complete source and details, but beware that this is some of the most nightmarish code to have ever marred the face of the Earth, in addition to only compiling in VS2003.

I guess i could take a look.

But we're in a losing battle with the Valve engine. This string space issue seems to be the latest in a never ending series of walls - and this one seems to be particularly tall, given that it means we basically can't make global item modifications, without taking a similar approach to Trump's declared policy on new regulations.

Well, the string pool i suggested should solve that problem, it's near identical to Source's approach.

I wouldn't know how to implement that, especially with no engine source, but the older version of Svencoop we have for development seems to fix it. I don't know if it fixes it entirely or just gives us more breathing room though.

You don't need the engine to fix this, you can just replace some code in the SDK to use a new string pool. The game uses the ALLOC_STRING macro to map string allocations to enginefuncs_t:fnAllocString, so if you redirect it to your own function it'll work just fine. As long as all string_t values returned from your own function are values that make the string relative to gpGlobals->pStringBase it'll work. The engine always maps them back using the same address so it works.

 

[enter560]

Any updates on the process of porting MS:C to Sven-Coop?

 

[Thothie]

I wanted to get one last release on HL1 before we went to Svencoop, so we could separate new issues caused by the new engine from new issues caused by the patch, though I'm starting to wonder if we have a choice in the matter. We're at least at the point where almost no map will run in listenserver on HL1 due to stringspace limits, but they are fine on HLDS or Svencoop. (Solokiller's effort from two posts ago didn't salvage the listenserver issue, which he's given up on as an engine limitation.)

I've had all of four weeks this year where I wasn't overseas for a funeral, dealing with relatives and loved ones in hospitals, or in a hospital myself, and the docs have me on so many drugs I'm rarely lucid enough to trust myself scripting, so shit's slowed to a crawl. Blarg... Being old sucks.

 

[Monika's_BFFEx0256]

 

[Kanta]

Godspeed, Thothie.

 

[Truewarrior]

Take care of yourself make sure not to rush things or you might end up worst!
( imagines a game scripted by thothie about to pass at from drugs )

 

[enter560]

Yes, i agree take care of yourself first and foremost.I am sorry to hear about funeral, hope all is well.

 

[ceriux]

still feel like you should just move to a modified quake engine... its essentially what xash3d is... you have the source to the engine and can change whatever you like...

 

[greatguys1]

But we already are on a modified quake engine

 

[Kanta]

haahhahahahhahahahahahahhahaa

 

[ceriux]

Yeah one that you don’t have access to everything.

 

[Thothie]

Yes, but we kinda need one that actually runs the game. (Even if, barely.)

 

[ceriux]

Fte runs half-life maps already theres a mod that lets you play through them with most entites working

 

[Thothie]

Still doesn't run MSC... If ya find a way to make it do so, gimme a heads up, but we'd also need some replacement for the Steam ID system, unlike the Svencoop engine.

 

[Myrlance]

It would be nice to see a replacement for SteamID to be like a way of registration through the website or something like the sort.

What I don't understand is how Sven Coop get's a new engine but we don't - either way I do not have enough knowledge to decide on taking sides on how Sven Coop even gets a new engine in the first place.

 

[Kanta]

Their engine is a liscenced modification of the Goldsrc engine. The reason why they have it seems fairly straight forward to me; they are a far more recognizable name and larger community, also their game is coded better(at least, more neatly from what I can guess).

 

[Myrlance]

I just wish we had one , sadly we don't..

 

[ceriux]

I think fte even has done kind of php integration or something.

 

[Thothie]

What I don't understand is how Sven Coop get's a new engine but we don't - either way I do not have enough knowledge to decide on taking sides on how Sven Coop even gets a new engine in the first place.

Their engine is a liscenced modification of the Goldsrc engine. The reason why they have it seems fairly straight forward to me; they are a far more recognizable name and larger community, also their game is coded better(at least, more neatly from what I can guess).

Combination of popularity, connections, greenlight payment, and that all the copyrighted materials they are using, fall under Valve's juristiction, either directly or indirectly (save some in third party maps). "Coded neatly" doesn't seem to be a factor, given some of the things I've seen greenlit, but I suppose it makes for a better impression at least.

I'd like to get rid of the last of our hard copyrighted materials before shelling $100, but even if we did get greenlit and got the engine source, at this point, we'd still be using Svencoop's engine, unless we have a coder that knows how to alter the limits of the current engine in the same way. I think all that's really left is the robed elves. We have the materials to make them, just they may come out like ass since I can't rig for sh*t. (Also may need to tweak our male elves to be able to go helmetless, as they've no ears.) Some of the mobs still need their weapon repertoire fixed too, but as we have replacements, it's just a matter of painful work.

 

[Myrlance]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up - I understand now.