Possible Tweaking Fix?

[Stoned]

I propose that we implement a system that COULD, ultimately, fix twinking. Is it possible to implement a system in which you CAN NOT pick up weapons that you can not use(Doesn't meat the proficiency requirement)? It would stop from players who join at the end of high level maps and take the stuff that they drop.

 

[PBarnum]

But what if you find an awesome weapon somehow by yourself and want to keep it for later?

 

[Stoned]

But what if you find an awesome weapon somehow by yourself and want to keep it for later?

Pick it up, send it to your inventory.

 

[Thothie]

it possible to implement a system in which you CAN NOT pick up weapons that you can not use

But what if you find an awesome weapon somehow by yourself and want to keep it for later?

Pick it up, send it to your inventory.

 

[Stoned]

it possible to implement a system in which you CAN NOT pick up weapons that you can not use

But what if you find an awesome weapon somehow by yourself and want to keep it for later?

Pick it up, send it to your inventory.

Oh durp, I immediately assumed he was talking about a high level finding a weapon. Woops :roll: Anyway, this entire system is men't to stop twinking. It could also apply for armors. Don't meat the strength requirement, cant pick it up.

 

[Thothie]

Oh durp, I immediately assumed he was talking about a high level finding a weapon. Woops Anyway, this entire system is men't to stop twinking. It could also apply for armors. Don't meat the strength requirement, cant pick it up.

First off, you just made at least 20,000 Grammar Nazis commit seppuku.

Second, let's straighten out one thing once and for all:

^ This is "Tweak"


^ This is "Twinked"


^ This is Tweak Twinked.

Now that that's out of the way...

• Armor has a strength requirement, after a fashion, in that it is heavy. If you don't have the strength to pick it up, you can't pick it up. Most armors with secondary properties have magic skill requirements to activate those properties.

• Individualized chests don't give nifty items to newbie/late join players. While not all chests are individualized, more will be as time goes on, and the system is further refined.

• Various other chests have efforts to prevent ninja twinks. At the very least, most high end items will not appear in a chest for n00bs until a higher level character, with more damage points, has had a chance to take them. Artifact chests will offer items to those with the most damage points first.

• Some items can only be picked up by the character with the most damage points (albeit, this is only true on The_Wall at the moment.)

As for the absolute "f*ck you, you can't pick this up" preventing high level players from tossing high end items to n00bs who can't possibly use them, while it might be an idear, new players often come across items they cannot use (just beyond their abilities) through entirely legitimate means.

It might be more reasonable, to say, not allow picking up an item you are not within 10 levels of being able to wield, but that's tricky. One thing that makes it particularly tricky, is items in chests don't really exist until they enter the world. If you take an item from a chest, with your hands full, it goes straight to your inventory before the script that defines the item's level requirements and such is loaded. Those aren't loaded until you actually deploy the weapon, and you get the "OMG you suck too hard to use this thing!" message.

However, it be true, that doesn't apply to items traded by players, for they must toss their items on the ground - at which point the script is in world, and I *think* we can do a check to see if it can be picked up script side at that point... Hrmmm... At the moment, that system is designed that it can define which player can pick the item up, I'm not sure if it can define multiple players (check all the valid players, and add them to a list, ignoring all others) - would need to examine.

 

[Keldorn]

I haven't really seen much twinking lately, at least, not using the definition that Thothie posted a while ago (farming/giving high level items to newbies in an attempt to make them leave after they feel like they have everything and have done everything interesting)

Discouraging twinking in this manner would not really do anything other than delay hitting the end of new content ingame until characters hit a certain level (though it's not technically twinking at this point).

Well, that and make people with mules hit the item limit or beyond on their mains, even without duplicates.

That said, all you have to do to prevent most twinking is restrict low level characters from wearing bags of holding ala strength penalty.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

• Various other chests have efforts to prevent ninja twinks. At the very least, most high end items will not appear in a chest for n00bs until a higher level character, with more damage points, has had a chance to take them. Artifact chests will offer items to those with the most damage points first.

I think it would be better if rare items only showed up for the people with the top 3 damage points (random arbitrary number). That way noobs can't tag along with high levels who already have everything when they are running loda for fun. I think the vast majority of AoB's, Hoarfrost Shards, Bludgeon Hammers, etc. are obtained by players with 200-500 HP who are only tagging along. The current system is far better now than it once was, but most players still get items far too early imo.

 

[The Man In Black]

You can define multiple players for the item-pickup thing. That's why it's an array ;-) Also, it'd probably be easier to set a different system up for that, as you'd run into weirdness (an item drops, defines who it can be picked up by. A player levels to within the pick-up range, item denies)

 

[FER]

Artifact chests will offer items to those with the most damage points first.

I noticed it wasnt working this way in Umulak.

I joined just in time to kill the boss, and with only 1000 damage points I got dragon axe, demon claws, lighting rod and flamelick. The only loot that didnt come to me was a tork chaos bow.

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

You're talking about individualized chests.

And yeah sometimes that does happen :X

Not that a newbie will join, deal 1k damage on a level 40 map, and get phat lewt. I'm pretty sure that it gives items based on character hp or level. I'd have to take a look (*dusts off scriptpack* >_> )

 

[HumanSteak]

How about making everything a players picks up from a chest bound to him, even if said player drops it? Nobody else would be able to take it until it disapears, or unless the player who took it from the chest changes map or rejoin.

That would prevent newbies from getting certain items only like serps, fire helms, granite maces etc by just walking by.
Of course, twinking would still be possible, if the player who got it in the first place kept that item he don't need until a map change just to give it to some newbie, but at least it would prevent early Xmas caused by those retards who feel an urge to gank every chests until it's completly empty.

Bah, now that I think of it it's not worth the trouble to make it so. Why not just replace certain items that can spawn from nearly any chest with potions...

You want a fire helm, go get one at X map. It becomes rare again, nobody would get an insane quantity of these while they don't need it and it becomes rare and nobody would just give those away.

P.S. I was talking only about *some* twinking opportunities, not the whole issue altogether

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

How about making everything a players picks up from a chest bound to him, even if said player drops it? Nobody else would be able to take it until it disapears, or unless the player who took it from the chest changes map or rejoin.

I think this is a great idea.

Bah, now that I think of it it's not worth the trouble to make it so. Why not just replace certain items that can spawn from nearly any chest with potions...

Also a good idea.

 

[zeus9860]

How about making everything a players picks up from a chest bound to him, even if said player drops it? Nobody else would be able to take it until it disapears, or unless the player who took it from the chest changes map or rejoin.

Wouldn't this be the actual defenition of twinking? I mean, you are forcing a player to changemap or reconnect in order to give the item you just got to someone else rather than the person who played with you and wanted it. To be honest i haven't seen much twinking in the latest patches, maybe except for january patch. I dont consider giving an item to a player with the lvl to use it and was doing the map with me (example tork bows from [insert both maps here]) an actual twink. Another example, most medium lvl players have 30+ archery since its the easiest skill to lvl up at lower lvls. These players might have a range of 450-550 hp and they have tork bows and are able to use them.

I would also like to know if you guys consider twinking by giving 2 bear claws to 2 high lvl players(around 800hp both) who asked for my help but they weren't there when i got them on my runs. Yet they accepted them after i gave them away without asking anything in return, because i dont need any more junk to make my item count higher. One of them give aways i did it for a good reason but im not going to mention it out who it is and why i did it, i would prefer keeping it a "secret" unless that person doesnt care about it.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

FOR THE LAST ****ING TIME: IT IS CALLED "TWINKING" AND NOT "TWEAKING"!!!

 

[Thothie]

FOR THE LAST ****ING TIME: IT IS CALLED "TWINKING" AND NOT "TWEAKING"!!!

I THINK WE COVERED THAT ALREADY!
(Thank you for contributing...)

Artifact chests will offer items to those with the most damage points first.

I noticed it wasnt working this way in Umulak.

I joined just in time to kill the boss, and with only 1000 damage points I got dragon axe, demon claws, lighting rod and flamelick. The only loot that didnt come to me was a tork chaos bow.

There's no Artifact chest on Umulak, just an individualized chest... It is true, though, I don't think everything in it is damage point dependant.

	if ( CHEST_USER equals SECOND_WINNER )
	{
		if ( $rand(2,16) < game.players ) addstoreitem STORENAME [[demon_claw_script]] 1 0
		if ( $rand(2,20) < game.players ) addstoreitem STORENAME [[lrod_script]] 1 0
		if ( $rand(2,16) < game.players ) addstoreitem STORENAME [[daxe_script]] 1 0
	}

On the other hand... Meh... Some of the items you got are damage point protected... They shoulda been reserved for the person with the second highest damage points, at least. Either the system is fuxing up (entirely possible) or no one else had any more damage points than you, save one - not sure. :\

In anycase, anti-twinking efforts would likely be best centered around improving and spreading the existing systems, that don't seem to cause too many major issues (when they work) rather than implementing new systems that almost certainly will.

I do want to expand the bank system to make mules obsolete, but I'm so afraid to fux with that super-complex script now that I have it working so well. :|

 

[HumanSteak]

How about making everything a players picks up from a chest bound to him, even if said player drops it? Nobody else would be able to take it until it disapears, or unless the player who took it from the chest changes map or rejoin.

Wouldn't this be the actual defenition of twinking? I mean, you are forcing a player to changemap or reconnect in order to give the item you just got to someone else rather than the person who played with you and wanted it. To be honest i haven't seen much twinking in the latest patches, maybe except for january patch. I dont consider giving an item to a player with the lvl to use it and was doing the map with me (example tork bows from [insert both maps here]) an actual twink. Another example, most medium lvl players have 30+ archery since its the easiest skill to lvl up at lower lvls. These players might have a range of 450-550 hp and they have tork bows and are able to use them.

I would also like to know if you guys consider twinking by giving 2 bear claws to 2 high lvl players(around 800hp both) who asked for my help but they weren't there when i got them on my runs. Yet they accepted them after i gave them away without asking anything in return, because i dont need any more junk to make my item count higher. One of them give aways i did it for a good reason but im not going to mention it out who it is and why i did it, i would prefer keeping it a "secret" unless that person doesnt care about it.

Sorry for the huge quote, but I don't think anyone would reconnect on a wall run just to give some newb a fire helm, for example. That's the point. On the other hand, reconnecting/waiting for next map change for someone who totally deserve bear claws or something IS worth it. In my opinion, giving an epic or hard to get item to someone who didn't even try to obtain it, is twinking no matter the guy's hp or level.

 

[FER]

or no one else had any more damage points than you, save one - not sure. :\

I doubt It

There also some problems with the damage points: sometimes I notice that for no reason my damage point become 0, same for other players. (No, I didnt reconnect)

 

[zeus9860]

There also some problems with the damage points: sometimes I notice that for no reason my damage point become 0, same for other players. (No, I didnt reconnect)

That's a death discount you get for dieing too quickly and doing little damage while alive. Usually you loose up to 2k/3k dmg points per death.

 

[CrazyMonkeyDude]

Hay gusy I thik aob shud stop dmgae poitsn fram being tooken rite?

 

[FER]

But i've seen players with over 100k points losing the all.

 

[Thothie]

There's no 100k limit... The limit is somewhere in the billions, as the actual number is kept across multiple vars. Basically for every 1000pts of damage you do, the GM's var goes up by 0.01, and we extract via multiplication - the player script only keeps track at a 1000pts at a time. It might display wrong at some point (as the number maybe too large after being multiplied back), but it should still be tracked proper.

You shouldn't loose more than 1000dmg points for death though.

Hrmm... Wondering if I should just re-write the damage point system again - wierd stuff seems to be happening. Simpler alternative might be to track it code side via a long or some such, I suppose. One big bugger seems to be getting the damage points back to a player who reconnects though.

 

[Stoned]

There's no 100k limit... The limit is somewhere in the billions, as the actual number is kept across multiple vars. Basically for every 1000pts of damage you do, the GM's var goes up by 0.01, and we extract via multiplication - the player script only keeps track at a 1000pts at a time. It might display wrong at some point (as the number maybe too large after being multiplied back), but it should still be tracked proper.

You shouldn't loose more than 1000dmg points for death though.

Hrmm... Wondering if I should just re-write the damage point system again - wierd stuff seems to be happening. Simpler alternative might be to track it code side via a long or some such, I suppose. One big bugger seems to be getting the damage points back to a player who reconnects though.

I would also like to know why I do 100 damage and end up with 10 damag points...

 

[zeus9860]

I would also like to know why I do 100 damage and end up with 10 damag points...

Thats because you are using Dark Mauls at 800 hp LAUGH OUT LOUD.

And i think you are mistaking, you even get more damage points when you hit something usually with any weapon except for ethereal dagger. But i cant be sure, it's been a while since i kept myself up to date related to this stuff.

 

[ceriux]

um honestly i think i might agree with him, might also be considered a small fix for the economy or a starting point for it. consider the fact that if you cant pick up items your too low level for. that means you cant sell them. (one more suggestion i would have for it would be having gold directly and evenly and automatically distributed between the players who do the majority of the damage.)