Symbols

[zeus9860]

How about this:

Reach endgame cap, anyone can get the apostle weapon, in order to use it like an apostle you would need to start from scratch with a new race, said race would start with the apostle item in hands and guess what... you would have to level up again that new character in order to use the full powers of apostle beings.

In the end we could have 4 races... humans, dwarves, elves, (demi) apostles.

"Apostles" race would tie to the side you choose for the new character, if it was human, it would be torkalath, dwarf = urdual, elf = felewyn. Like an upgraded main race with extra powers...

So it's like players would be forced to grind twice in order to be considered "real apostles", i don't see everyone and their mother grinding their asses to level 60 just because of this, and given that we have 3 apostles to choose from, the quantity of items flowing around would be minimum.

This is the definition of a true game ending, it's like playing Borderlands campaign twice, except, this is an rpg that involves grinding to achieve greater things.

@Darksnack, xp calculations break after 60 or so (goes negative values), so yeah, endcap is @60, it has been confirmed before.

@Oyster, i don't agree with the apostle level requirements, like i said on top of this post, i prefer seeing it as a endgame reward, and in order to use its full potency, you must start all over again with a new character which is an upgraded main character with apostle powers, as you level up throughout the game, you get stronger and stronger, untill you get to the endcap again and perhaps then... something extra could happen. Also, if you consider this as a viable option for the future, that "class system" that you guys speak so much off, could have exceptional classes just for these upgraded-to-apostle main characters, revealing new strategies in gameplay and the likes, or perhaps achieving even higher class-specific ranks, making you a "demi god" as you progress further into the game and level up...

Again, the idea of limiting apostle weapons is really REALLY stupid, that's not going to stop people from getting them as much as they can, the best you can do is to make the real use of these items be achieved with lots of patience and time.
That's how things should roll in the end, not that stupid mumbo jumbo of limiting apostle powers to just a selected few, if someone wants to get them, they have to work hard for it at the very least, again, limiting the amount of apostle rewards is a very stupid idea.

 

[FER]

Why not just one player on the whole character database can have it, but can kill/be killed by other players without turning pvp on, and whoever kills him gets the weapon, not to mention having to be online once every 4 days to keep it or it dissapears and the quest to get it reappears again?

 

[Jordy]

I think the system would be fine if:

1. the damn symbols and actual shards wouldn't disappear randomly.

2. If everyone could only get lets say 1 symbol, and you would not be able to drop/trade it, ( the only way to get rid of it would be to bank/use it.) so that people can't f*ck themselves if they gave/traded theirs away and now cannot get another at all, (as it is now).



TBH even with the current system it's still way to easy to get the fshards as long as stuff doesn't 'poof' on you(or the other 4 people), as thoth doesn't like giving rollbacks for these things being lost.

Edit: as long as those people haven't messed up their character by dropping their symbol/picking up someone elses

 

[Thothie]

As fun as that would be, people like this are a plague on the community, and indeed the world, so I'm inclined to make life harder on them, rather than giving them what they want.

There's going to be more and more unique items and exclusive paths as time goes on, and they'll require the assistance of others in one form or another, who will have to give that aid with little to no benefit for themselves, making them all that much rarer.

I'll do something for this next patch, in terms of reliability, but it will also result in the item being that much rarer. If, over time, the item becomes rare enough, I may enable some other method in a future patch, but until then...

On a side spoiler, Zeus's suggestion is, at least in part, already the plan, as it has been for years.
...also FER's is closer to what I had in mind for the Torakalath Scythe- must be fed a player of near equal or greater strength once a month. Which may require a volunteer, if you want it to be done safely.

 

[Jordy]

Also wouldn't the Blade need more components, aka something u could make RARE later when we actually get to that point,
Because if someone wants the UnHoy Blade It still requires the same 5 items that the blade would. (plus the other component). That isn't even that powerful compared to this *uber l33t h4xz0r* weapon everyone says the blade will be.

 

[Thothie]

Yeah, some folks don't understand that there's no way to make an item "RARE" in this game. I mean, in the past, we've had items where the odds were 1 in 4096 (even if it wasn't deliberate), and there were always a ton of them around within a month or two.

...and how powerful it is doesn't much matter... Some people will rage over a level 1 shortsword that does 50% more damage to wolves... As we know from painful experience.

 

[zeus9860]

On a side spoiler, Zeus's suggestion is, at least in part, already the plan, as it has been for years.

I'm a mad wizard, you know that right?

Tbh, i still think you need to readjust your plans with this quest entirely, and no, not making it worse, everyone should have an equal chance at getting the item, just find some other way to make it less frequent to be obtained as the rather typical loot we have... hence the reason why i suggested that, as i think it's a good way of fixing this situation, everyone can get one, if they work for it twice. If they wanted all 3 items, they would have to do it 6 times (yay no life mode on). :roll:

Not to mention, you could always set symbols as a very rare drop in any map's chest/enemy loot, any player could get only 5 symbols and make a shard at any given time, once he made a shard, he would have to get rid of it doing the quest, reseting their quest status so they could get the symbols again, and repeat the long and painfull process of getting a new shard, which then can be used for yet another apostle item. This will slow down things aswell, if you really are concerned about lowering the quantity of these items.

Also, might aswell go ahead and question this:
-How many shards does each apostle weapon have? And what are the shards exactly?

Felewyn blade is obvious right now, urdual was mentioned long ago in 2009 it was 2 (dagger) shards (holy/dark?) and i think i heard something about the tork scythe before, but i'm not sure if i'm correct or i imagined things as to what i know of it.

 

[Jordy]

You could add more shards, that also take shards that are as equally a pain in the ass to get

and as far as rare... meh you might as well give up on the idea of something being rare unless you have some large pointless plan where there are like 20 "rare" items where only one of each exist so that there is enough for everybody. as there should only be one of an important lore item, even though no other multiplayer games go that route as it makes no sense.
now i am just mumbling on about nothing and am starting to feel like im just trolling.

so really you can't have very few of an item because its not possible so give up on that idea already :/
either everyone will have it or few/one will have it and will quit than no one will have it,

OR

We could come up with some bs point system lolol where someone gets this Blade for a week/month w/e if they have turned in/earned the most points earned though quests/maps ect.

yeah im just losing my mind now.

 

[zeus9860]

FER's idea is "meh", player could always bind a key to disconnect or force quit/alt f4 the game to get away with it...

@Jordy
That sig, how the hell did i post such words in the past? GAH >.<

I would actually laugh big time if there could only be one of such item ingame and anyone could obtain it via quest, like someone gets it first, then someone else gets it from their hands by doing the quest, and so on. Nah i'm joking, dammit Jordy, stop posting nonsense!

 

[Thothie]

How many shards does each apostle weapon have? And what are the shards exactly?

When Felewyn killed Lor Malgoriand, at the end of the Age of Blood, her sword broke into five pieces and scattered across the world... This maybe somewhat metaphorically speaking... But suffice to say, they are enchanted in such a fashion that only those worthy of them can acquire them. Someone who encourages order, and is such a pillar of stability, that others are willing to lay down their lives for him.

The plan for the Torkalath Scythe has no shards, but instead requires a specific series of sacrifices, demonstrating extreme strength and leadership, and after it is acquired, must be "fed" regularly, with the blood of equal or stronger player opponents, or it will die. If its owner is defeated, it will migrate to the victor, taking some of its previous owner's power along with it. Presumably, to retain the item safely, someone will find a regular volunteer they trust, willing to go down on their knees for them - sorta speak.

The Blade or Urdual is made up of two, oppositely aligned, daggers, that each have stringent and opposite training requirements. They must both be brought to a third player, with a stringent balanced approach to the same build, and he must acquire them both in short order, as he won't be able to carry either one by itself for very long before it vanishes. Once both are acquired, they can be merged into a single weapon for short periods of time.

There's also two other Apostle weapons planned that I don't wanna go into just now, as well as a sixth path, that'd exclude you from any of them, but offer powers of its own... But all in all, it comes to about a dozen items of limited availability.

 

[Hakariaki]

Not to be a let down but I think not one of those 1,439 players are willing to give up they're quest for getting the sword
would you like that to happen to you?

I do have a symbol that i dont mind helping someone else to get the sword with. just takes up space in inventory anyways.
But im not sure if your worthy enughe

 

[DarkSnack]

We'll see how things turn out seeing how, that's suffice to say that so far I haven't seen one set of people grouping up to make this said Felewyn shard, even more so 5 more people to even make the blade to just encounter one owner.
Implying that the owner might not bail out and cast out that "Order".
That makes 25 people with symbols, more 5 people with a fshard to just 1 owner.

 

[DarkSnack]

I do have a symbol that i dont mind helping someone else to get the sword with. just takes up space in inventory anyways.
But im not sure if your worthy enughe

Perhaps I'm not worthy to get the blade, but other people certainly are, infact I would be willing to give up on the blade if this measure was removed, and no not replaced by some other dull measure where you get 0.5 a shard and then you need 1000 people just to get 1 freaking sword.
Even so we already support each other everyday, players give other items to other players, they even run other maps for other players, if we all don't deserve the sword then hell stab me at will.

 

[Thothie]

Even so we already support each other everyday, players give other items to other players, they even run other maps for other players, if we all don't deserve the sword then hell stab me at will.

/stab

If you can’t find four people willing to do that for you, or can't find a payment to make it worth their while, then you don't deserve the Shard - that's the whole point. It's as simple as that. Anyone can get twinks and hand me downs, but it takes a special person to get others to make a real effort for them. It's a theme destined to play out, to one degree or another, in all the Apostle lines.

 

[DarkSnack]

Even so we already support each other everyday, players give other items to other players, they even run other maps for other players, if we all don't deserve the sword then hell stab me at will.

/stab

If you can’t find four people willing to do that for you, or can't find a payment to make it worth their while, then you don't deserve the Shard - that's the whole point. It's as simple as that. Anyone can get twinks and hand me downs, but it takes a special person to get others to make a real effort for them. It's a theme destined to play out, to one degree or another, in all the Apostle lines.

Yes because players are going to run up to 4 people and say "Oh Hi I'm planning to make a superswordofdestruction+doom
and if you help me I shall reward with prestige and some other noitemofmassivedestruction and after that who know's maybe I´ll stab you guys in the back and never play the game again taking your chances of ever even getting one such item."
Seems legit.

 

[MS:C community]

You're a member of SoT so you don't deserve one anyway.

=== thread end ===

 

[DarkSnack]

You're a member of SoT so you don't deserve one anyway.

=== thread end ===

Do I really need to qoute myself here?

Perhaps I'm not worthy to get the blade, but other people certainly are, infact I would be willing to give up on the blade if this measure was removed, and no not replaced by some other dull measure where you get 0.5 a shard and then you need 1000 people just to get 1 freaking sword.
Even so we already support each other everyday, players give other items to other players, they even run other maps for other players, if we all don't deserve the sword then hell stab me at will.

Also you say that as you are calling our guild a bunch of crap? Perhaps I understood wrong but it's what I clearly see there.

 

[zeus9860]

not the guild entirely... but the people who go eye to eye with the guild leaders/creators, which could be extended to every single member (question mark). I bet there are still a few decent players in there, not that i care anyways.

 

[Red Cell]

Even so we already support each other everyday, players give other items to other players, they even run other maps for other players, if we all don't deserve the sword then hell stab me at will.

/stab

If you can’t find four people willing to do that for you, or can't find a payment to make it worth their while, then you don't deserve the Shard - that's the whole point. It's as simple as that. Anyone can get twinks and hand me downs, but it takes a special person to get others to make a real effort for them. It's a theme destined to play out, to one degree or another, in all the Apostle lines.

I don't know if this is really a good idea. It looks like you need real life social skills to make this happen, which wouldn't be fair to a lot of players.

Maybe post a guide to help level up your real life teamwork, leadership and bartering skills?

 

[DarkSnack]

Even so we already support each other everyday, players give other items to other players, they even run other maps for other players, if we all don't deserve the sword then hell stab me at will.

/stab

If you can’t find four people willing to do that for you, or can't find a payment to make it worth their while, then you don't deserve the Shard - that's the whole point. It's as simple as that. Anyone can get twinks and hand me downs, but it takes a special person to get others to make a real effort for them. It's a theme destined to play out, to one degree or another, in all the Apostle lines.

I don't know if this is really a good idea. It looks like you need real life social skills to make this happen, which wouldn't be fair to a lot of players.

Maybe post a guide to help level up your real life teamwork, leadership and bartering skills?

Spare me the sarcasm if you will, what does a game have anything to do with real life?
Do you train swords in real life like people used to do 2 centuries ago, and go on epic quests with the aid of brave knights?
Also no nuclear bomb as hit us yet so, my barter skills remain stagnant until then.

 

[Red Cell]

I wasn't being sarcastic and you're kinda proving my point. We need to educate the audience if this concept was to be implemented.

 

[DarkSnack]

Yes perhaps you are right, and you do have a point there.
But nonetheless if this was removed or changed for a better measure(No not a measure where it will make a apostle almost impossible to acquire like Thothie wants)
But one that gives anyone a chance to get one apostle item depending on their belief, in this case I would want a torkalath scynthe(Shadow of Torkalath guild so yeah).
And so on this is quite reasonable and if made for upper tier levels (60 cap level?) and a quest that has also a chance of failure then yes, (maybe even add in some random events so it's not always the same for each player, assuming this can be done.)
Thothie might not think this is a good idea but hey, if everyone has at least 1 shot at it of the 12 apostle weapons it would be good.

 

[Thothie]

It looks like you need real life social skills to make this happen, which wouldn't be fair to a lot of players.

...And now you're catching on. That's the idea.

Maybe post a guide to help level up your real life teamwork, leadership and bartering skills?

You can make some money on the side with that, should you write it up well enough. But again, in most MORPG's, you have things along these lines, and folks manage to get it together one way or the other, in much larger numbers - and even folks here have pulled it off a few times.

But it's not supposed to be fair - it is designed specifically not to be. It's designed, instead, to ensure you actually deserve it, ensure it only goes to those who can work together, and to be one of the few things in the game that isn't inevitable with an investment of sufficient time.

 

[DarkSnack]

But again, in most MORPG's, you have things along these lines, and folks manage to get it together one way or the other, in much larger numbers - and even folks here have pulled it off a few times.

Inovate, you say you don't follow other RPG's and that it's hardly unprecented yet your words say otherwise from what I read sure you're comparing your own method of approach but still it always clouds your mind and you might make it more or less what the concept of others RPG's actually are.

But the fact remains is that if you make this happen(The measure where you restrict even more) perhaps no one will even try to get the blade I'm guessing, if a player sees that the blade is powerless or not worth all process that you have you make, probably in the end of all this there will be not even one fully crafted Felewyn blade,Scynthe,Blade of Urdual or whatever apostle weapon that they might come across even so, I know that you're going to design a specific quest for all of them(Atleast I think so)

Even more so Order is supposed to make things fairly and balanced, of course there's also that not so good Order.
Tho if you don't wanna make things fair, just put on a strict regiment of 1 symbol shattering every 1 week(Disapearing).
This could also be a good way to make, better approaches to this here problem that we are discussing, but instead making it less strict and giving thought for what I suggested above.(Yes the symbol shattering event).

 

[Orochi]

Your posts are hard as hell to read, DarkSnack. You are the king of run-on sentences.

That being said, I've read the thread and thought I'd chip in my two cents.

First, let me say I completely agree with what Thothie is trying to do with these Apostle items. Creating a way to get them such that they are limited in number and only those willing to display traits representing the item's creator can earn it is a brilliant idea; not necessarily new, but a good idea nonetheless. Requiring a co-op effort is even better, if a bit unfair due to the player base's aforementioned lack of social skills: it ensures that only the worthy and devoted will have it, and they will have earned it. Ask anyone, exclusivity is fun (especially when you can claim it for yourself from the original owner, though whether that will be an option remains to be seen). Thothie and I certainly don't see eye to eye on a lot of things; lord knows I think he's far too mercenary about content generation, but I stand behind him on this idea.

The thing you're not getting here, DarkSnack, is that MS:C at its core is a multiplayer game. Yes, you can master every skill and get most weapons alone, but it was designed for co-op. Currently, MS:C allows full solo'ing and mastery of everything, which is very generous. Your posts smack of a spoiled child who has everything else but is told he cannot have the one item not intended for him before it becomes unobtainable, and so throws a tantrum. Get ready to hate the future, because MS:S will probably have such mechanics too, god willing we get that far.

Everyone is going to suffer from this decision, not just you, and yet I only see you (and possibly Zeus) raising a stink about it; I think you're just mad that you won't have a chance to own one and are using the cause of "Everyone should have a chance to get it!" as an excuse.