Map help

[Witness of God]

make an area were there is hard things to kill and one with medium and another with easy stuff. That should work. keeps everyone busy.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Be inspired by Half-Life puzzles! The single-player game can be a great inspiration.

 

[Thothie]

Link yer damn pics (tired of stuff getting stretched) :roll:



It is hard to make the crits a challenge after the characters have 300hp or so - I wish they were more adjustable, so you could have like "orc champion" and "hardy orc champion" and "insanely masculine orc champion" etc. Seems you have to get at the code to do that.



One thing that makes critters mean, I notice though, is to get a bunch of tough ones in a very tight area spawning in waves. I discovered this after editing your Lowlands map, actually. I've got like 10 helena-style orc champions and a ranger or two in that tight forest alleyway, and it's very hard to get past them. Forcing to fight single double file, also a bitch, as orcs have quite a bit of reach over players.



Spider trap in Highlands, which now spawns a combination of giant spiders and Claruin style queens, also quite nasty when yer in that pit, surrounded, with no way out, and no where to hide or bow from.



Puzzles tend to annoy players it seems... Mazes, also, slightly less so. Learning the maze in MSCave is what kept it difficult. Lots of secrets, always good too of course. Jumping challenges should be used sparingly in MS, IMO - as characters with lots of equipment, and low level characters with heavy equipment, simply can't complete them.



The fact that Helena has a GOAL I think is what makes it the best MS vanilla map, and that maybe the real key to making maps interesting (although it's also likely difficult to implement). Make it so such and such must survive to complete map. Or that such and such must be slayed within a certain period of time (like before the ceiling comes down and kills you all, temple collapses, etc). Escort missions, etc. Give players something to work together for, then you may have something truly worthy of praise.

__________

"My whole life is a dark room. One, big, dark, room." -Lydia, Beetlejuice

Saint Thoth



PS. I wish status would give me X,Y,Z coordinates in MS. :\ Wadda I gotta do - port the damn maps to TFC?

 

[Crow]

I agree totally. If I can figure out how to make that kind of thing (I'm not an expert yet with using entites to make that kind of stuff work) then hell yea!



I'll keep that stuff about puzzles and other stuff in mind. I went a bit overboard with it because i wanted to show off my creativity, and i wanted there to be something besides just plain killing. I'll cut down a bit this time.



It seems that all my func_illusion entities dont react to light. They all look really weird, like they are glowing, but without the light emision part. Just really bright no matter where they are.

 

[Thothie]

You know more than I do, I'm sure... but looking at it...



The Helena trigger is rather complicated, looking at the ENT file, but even it seems fairly straight forward. It gets six deathnotices, and triggers the map change back to Thornlands. (Side note: game_text dont seem to work in Steam anymore, according to some dev forums I've read, so there's no messages. ><)

{

"origin" "320 -448 48"

"killtarget" "serrold_death"

"spawnchance" "100"

"targetname" "Serrold" //1 of six npcs in helena

"angles" "0 245 0"

"scriptfile" "helena/serrold"

"delayhigh" "2"

"delaylow" "1"

"classname" "ms_npc"

}

{

"origin" "320 -448 128"

"target" "deathnotice"

"targetname" "serrold_death" //six like this

"angles" "0 0 0"

"classname" "trigger_relay"

}

{

"origin" "248 32 248"

"target" "kickplayers"

"targetname" "deathnotice"

"classname" "multisource"

}

{

"origin" "280 32 248"

"backtothornlands" "6"

"losemsg" "0"

"targetname" "kickplayers"

"classname" "multi_manager"

}

{

"origin" "344 32 248"

"desttrans" "NE-A3"

"destmap" "thornlands"

"targetname" "backtothornlands"

"classname" "mstrig_changelevel"

}

{

"origin" "312 32 248"

"messagevolume" "10"

"message" "MS_NSAVEDHELENA"

"targetname" "losemsg"

"spawnflags" "3"

"classname" "env_message"

}

{

"origin" "312 32 264"

"rendercolor" "0 0 0"

"renderamt" "255"

"holdtime" "15"

"duration" "3"

"targetname" "losemsg"

"classname" "env_fade"

}

Simpler, would be to use the "fireallperish" attribute, you can use this to trigger another event - such as blocking the exit to the next map, spawning crits, and such. Chests seem to be spawned this way too.

{

"model" "*50"

"fireallperish" "wave2"

"angles" "0 0 0"

"spawnstart" "1"

"spawnloc" "1"

"targetname" "wave1"

"classname" "msarea_monsterspawn"

}

Dun look at me though, I'm still trying to figure how to buff up Lostcastle.

__________

"Darth Rosenberg is coming here to turn us all into Jawa Juice, and not one of you has enough metachlorines to stop her!" - Jonathan, Buffy the Vampire Slayer "Two to Go"

Saint Thoth

 

[Crow]

Much thanks I wish I knew as much about code as you do. I took a course called Digipen in my junoir year, just 2 weeks. it was during the summer, and we designed simple games in groups of four. I was paried up with 3 freshmen, so i was the master coder, game designer, and graphic designer. I basically did it myself, and they watched, but I had to use a program called "FUN." are you familliar at all with that? Basically you can make any type of basice arcade game with it. Scrollers, platformers, pingpong (Thats what i did. It was the easiest). It was pretty ineresting, and it got me interested in coding. I want to get a double major in computer sience and engineering.



Anyways... kinda went off on a tangent there... sort of... so anyways... how do i get the func_illusionary brushes to look normal?

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

I think you need to change the render mode to something different, I had the same problem once... Not sure which one though, in any case *not* additive.

 

[Crow]

I think i just figured it out. i had it on "texture" when it should be on "solid." I noticed that on texture it blurs the edges a little, and on solid they look alot more rough.



EDIT: oh, also, anyone who wants to help me out, i need some good brush trees. I decieded to hell with models.

 

[Crow]

In my map, monsterclip blocks seemed to be brushed aside by boars. they just plow right through it. why is this?

 

[Thothie]

Because boars have more sheer willpower than your average MS monster?



I'd try changeing the classtype of the monster, see if that fixes it. You can summon boars as ms_npc, msmonster_orcwarrior, msmonster_skeleton. msmonster_giantrat, and just change the descript/script file. Maybe using a different type will fix it... Most likely not, but worth a shot.

__________

"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned." - from Boswell's Life of Johnson

Saint Thoth

 

[stevenlafl]

In my map, monsterclip blocks seemed to be brushed aside by boars. they just plow right through it. why is this?

try making the monsterclip higher, thicker, and wider. That might fix the problem.

 

[Crow]

Problem fixed =D for now...



I'm having trouble getting music to play. Does msarea_music use .wav or only .mid ?

I've treid env_message and ambient_generic and they both run inot a processing problem.



Edit: Nm i fixed it hehe. :roll:

Also: The next map im working on has run into a really strange problem. When i run it without rad or vis on, (and even when they are on) it takes a REALLY long time for some reason. Which it shouldnt, because there are hardly anything in it yet. Just like one room's worth. When it finnaly does get done, it stops and gets this error in the console: "Host_Error no precache: *1" WTF?!?

 

[Thothie]

What was the issue with the Boar and how did you solve it?

The next map im working on has run into a really strange problem. When i run it without rad or vis on, (and even when they are on) it takes a REALLY long time for some reason. Which it shouldn't, because there are hardly anything in it yet.

Most likely a leak... I've hope you've not surrounded your map with a box, as if you have a leak, and a box, even with almost nothing on it, it'll drive both Vis and Rad up the wall (not to mention FPS when yer done).



Other possibility, as I mentioned before, RAD has this weird issue, if you have a Sky texture with nothing behind it, and you put a light near it, RAD doesn't consider the light to be blocked by the Sky texture. So it does the insane amount of math it takes to bounce that light off the entire, effectively infinite, map.



10 million years later, Rad comes back with, "42" and then you can compile.

__________

"Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 2005: Proof that Douglas Adams has a heavy drug habit he must fund."

Saint Thoth



EDIT: Ehhh... BTW... I just finally started downloading your new map... Eh.... Hmmm... I'd hate to tell you this, but a 38MB wad file = totally unacceptable. I can't possibly ask clients to download that monster. I'm certain you haven't even used a fraction of the textures in there though. I *think* you can tell HLCSG to include the textures you used (and only the textures you used) in the BSP itself (thus, eliminating 38MB wad file). This is done by adding the "-nowadtextures" to the HLCSG command line.



You also failed to include all the files it needs... I got hit by Rain.wad, and some sprites I apparently need.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Or -wadinclude.



Hey... wait a second...

...

38 MB?!

WHAT?

 

[Crow]

8)

yea... heh heh

<<

good idea

>>

I'll get right on that...





Giant box? uuuhhhh.... ofcoursenotdon'tbesilly



... I uploaded needed files.

Hopefully that texture thing works...

Or i'll be spending lots of time with wally, if ya know wut i mean



Uh, how does one get to the hlcsg command line?

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.p ... 4-61686200

Compiling 101

 

[Thothie]

I use a super sloppy batch file method, like so: makemap.bat, with all the zoner tools in the folder the map is created/stored in:

@echo off

set WADROOT=G:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\xxxx\dedicated server\valve

title Compiling %1.bsp

hlcsg "%1.map"

hlbsp "%1.map"

hlvis -full "%1.map"

hlrad -chop 128 -texchop 128 -low -verbose -lights oldlights.rad -extra "%1.map"

copy %1.bsp "G:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\xxxx\half-life\valve\maps\%1.bsp"

copy %1.bsp "G:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\xxxx\half-life\ms\maps\%1.bsp"

beep

beep

beep

notepad %1.log

pause

G:\Games\Steam\Steam.exe -applaunch 70 -game valve

"beep" won't work for you, as it's an old Norton DOS batch command I still have (makes three long beeps when done). This batch file also is designed to launch Half-Life standard so I can examine the map quickly with the adminmod and noclip I've installed there, unless I see a compile error in the log and close the DOS window. My working folder is my ms dedicated server maps folder, which is why you don't see it copy the bsp there.



With a batch file like this, you'd call it by typing mapname yourmapname (sans the extension). Or, for the truly lazy, make another batch file that calls this one.



As for parameters, it's pretty simple, as you can see there. You'd just add -nowadtextures, or what not, to the hlcsg line. You'd also probably not want to use a 128 chop, and may or may not want to use low priority on the HLRAD. (I use low priority as HLRAD is the only hyper-threaded part of the compile, and I don't want it to eff with the server.)



You can rem out the hlrad and hlvis lines when you just want a fast compile, and don't need the effects.

__________

"The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor man perfected without trials." - Chinese Proverb (adds: "...nor a map compelete without Hrad")

Saint Thoth

 

[Bobster1234]

{ 

"origin" "320 -448 48" 

"killtarget" "deathnotice" //Have then all target one thing

"spawnchance" "100" 

"targetname" "Serrold" //1 of six npcs in helena 

"angles" "0 245 0" 

"scriptfile" "helena/serrold" 

"delayhigh" "2" 

"delaylow" "1" 

"classname" "ms_npc" 

} 

{ 

"origin" "-4096 -4096 -4096" 

"target" "kickplayers" 

"targetname" "deathnotice" 

"count" "6"

"angles" "0 0 0" 

"classname" "trigger_counter" //Only need one of these puppies and not 6 different trigger_relays

}  

{ 

"origin" "280 32 248" 

"backtothornlands" "6" 

"losemsg" "0" 

"targetname" "kickplayers" 

"classname" "multi_manager" 

} 

{ 

"origin" "344 32 248" 

"desttrans" "NE-A3" 

"destmap" "thornlands" 

"targetname" "backtothornlands" 

"classname" "mstrig_changelevel" 

} 

{ 

"origin" "312 32 248" 

"messagevolume" "10" 

"message" "MS_NSAVEDHELENA" 

"targetname" "losemsg" 

"spawnflags" "3" 

"classname" "env_message" 

} 

{ 

"origin" "312 32 264" 

"rendercolor" "0 0 0" 

"renderamt" "255" 

"holdtime" "15" 

"duration" "3" 

"targetname" "losemsg" 

"classname" "env_fade" 

}

Do you guys no nothing but the most basic used ents? Rember think entity count. Even though in Helena you have plennty of free ents to use up but I just like my way better. I haven't tested this but I'm pretty sure it will work.

 

[Thothie]

I'm not sure why Lord M used six trigger_relays and a multisource instead of a trigger_counter, but many entities in MS don't work as they should, and that may be an issue. 'Would have to experiment to find out.



You could ommit the angles and origin from the trigger counter though, don't you 'no' anything?

__________

"And did you stop and think that maybe infants need darkness? That maybe darkness is part of their natural development." - Prof. Kenneth Monnitoff

Saint Thoth

 

[Thothie]

Ah, Crow, finally got your map in.



Design-wise, and FPS-wise, this is a massive improvement over your old maps, but a few things...



One: It's too small. It's a spawn with, effectively, one empty room (abiet, a very pretty one), leading to two halves of a city. Remember, each map change increases the chance of a server crash. I'd try to tie at least half your city to this room, so you have two maps instead of three, and thus reduce the chance of crash by half.



Two: when you use a sprite from MS or Valve, you don't need to duplicate it into your own sprite directory. This only makes it so clients need to download more sprites from the server. This holds true with sounds as well. I'd redirect all your sprite/sound links to their original folders.



Three: This is a nit-pick, but the sunbeams on the spawn need to be tapered at the ends as the textures did not align properly and thus you beams have little yellow lines on the ends of them. (Which was what always drove me crazy when using fade textures for that lighting effect in Gateroom.)



Four: Nice name.

__________

"The human story does not always unfold like a mathematical calculation on the principle that two and two make four. Sometimes in life they make five or minus three; and sometimes the blackboard topples down in the middle of the sum and leaves the class in disorder and the pedagogue with a black eye." - Winston Churchill

Saint Thoth

 

[Crow]

Crap, that drives me nuts as well, surprized i missed it =\



Lets see here...



Hehe mostly i just wanted that middle part so i had somewhere to put my sword statue. I spent quite a while on it and didn't want to waste it. I couldn't fit it into either maps, so... I guess it is pretty useless. Do you have any suggestions as to anything i should add to my city? Maybe i could just make that middle part bigger and have a bit more purpose.



The sprite and sound thing... um... i guess maybe i can try and find out where all the stuff is. I got everything from different places that werent half-life or ms, so i didnt know if half-life or ms already had them. So either I could say tough luck, or spend a long time finding the matching stuff in half-life. I dunno. :roll:



I'll fix that texture thing right now b4 i forget.



Also, is this commentary on just the spawn, or all three maps?



And, is that sarcasm or do you actually like the name? Because you could look at it two ways: One - just the "goldmoon" part, which i do think is cool, or two: that fact that what i put after that is really simple and obvious and sorta dumb sounding; north,south, and (hehe) spawn. I didn't know what else to call it



Edit: I was wondering if you could help me make an installer for all this. I know its a bit premature, but i'd rather figure it out now and have it ready to go then have to fuss with it after everything is finished. I think I remember someone saying that it was easy...

 

[Thothie]

By "nice name" I was refering to the big glowing "Crow" on the map.



I only have the initial spawn map, which again, could be attatched to a city. Worse case scenerio, make teleporter doors that go from the spawn doors to the city. No reason you can't use that sword statue in the city.



As for your misdirected sounds/sprites etc. You MUST have found them at some point, or you wouldn't have them to copy to your new sound folder. I've no idea why you copied them there and re-refferenced them.



MS sounds, sprites, models:

Steam\SteamApps\username\half-life\ms\sound

Steam\SteamApps\username\half-life\ms\sprites

Steam\SteamApps\username\half-life\ms\models



The Valve sound, sprites, and models, are found in the Steam\SteamApps\Half-Life.GCF

GCF browser can be found here.



It doesn't matter which game they are from, they are referenced the same way. Ie.

sprites/glow01.spr

sprites/tree1.spr

sound/NPC/edrin.wav

sound/gman/gman_offer.wav

_________________

"Damn bitzhchtnzatch, yo muthah D's full! You gotta bust a move ta mothah fuckin' CompUSA to get a new G-money Maxtor, yo!" - 'Lowtax', Somethingawful

Saint Thoth

 

[Crow]

Oh, yea, that... heh i added that because i felt bad that there absolutely nothing to do in that map.



You only have goldmoonspawn? I didn't give you the other 2 parts of the city?!

Oh... I didn't... hehe...

Crap. Well.. I'll compile whatever it is i have now and get those to you as soon as possible.

The "spawn" is actually part of the city. Its the middle. Those two doors lead to the other parts, its not separate from the city. Well it is in the sense that... uh... well i can't explain it but I'm sure you get what i mean. See, what it was origionally was the you started, basicaly my edana. the "start" map. But then i changed my mind because, like you said, that whole thing with the "you can't join because your not on this map" is lame, and you fixed it on your server, so now its just... a thing holding my pretty statue i wanted to use. I'm thinking of scraping the whole thing and using the statue somewhere else.

I think all the models i used were custom...

And i'm pretty sure all the sounds were...

Wait... are you saying i shouldn't have made a new folder and insteadd just slaped em in the ms directories that are already there?

I wanted to keep everything i got separate for the time being, (its just the way its set up on my computer att he moment) so that I didnt mix stuff up with the ms stuff and forget what was custom (what everyone else needed) and what was already there. Once i finish i should have it all figured out and there wont be a separate folder.

And howbout that installer? or at least help me figure out a rar. I tried it once but i couldn't get it so go in new folders, it was all one big mush. Can you even tell rar to put stuff in different places when you unzip?

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Can you even tell rar to put stuff in different places when you unzip?

Easy as hell. Just RAR your folder tree.

 

[Crow]

I thought i tried that... :?