[REL]The_wall

[Keldorn]

You should play the map before you talk.

I have genius, I just havent reached that part yet. I only make it to the crossbow spammers then I rage quit.

You should play the entire map before you talk about how it's balanced, especially if you're talking about parts you haven't even played.

>_>

 

[Skillasaur]

Quote one section where he was talking about balance. As far as he can see he was only offering an opinion on a workaround to the NPC getting stuck.

 

[Keldorn]

Quote one section where he was talking about balance. As far as he can see he was only offering an opinion on a workaround to the NPC getting stuck.

Oh ****, uhhh...I never got to the stairs so I didnt think there where enemys in the stairs. How about a really hard onslaught of enemys when they get to the top? I dont like **** rewards, especially on that tough of a map.

>_>

There is one. (horde of zombies/skeles)

I wasn't attacking him or anything, it's just hard to give good workarounds/suggestions (even it it's not really about balance) without knowing what's already in the map.

EDIT: On a side note, it might just be a good idea to add a teleport or meet you at the top option once all of the enemies in the staircase are defeated, since it wouldn't really detract from the difficulty of the area.

 

[Skillasaur]

Fair enough, if you're not attacking him, but it seems to me you're jumping on his lack of knowledge of the map rather than explaining how that effects the validity of his suggestions.

 

[Keldorn]

My bad.

But yeah, there's already a hard group of monsters at the top, so I'd suggest just adding a teleport/walk option/trigger once the monsters are clear so that it doesn't effect the balance of the map.

I'd also suggest giving the special reward once you've cleared the elevator area, since there's no monsters left anyway, but I don't know if you've already fixed the multiplayer elevator thing.

 

[Thothie]

I don't know either... I *hope* I have... There's two methods in the current alpha script... He gets the "hick ups" and adjusts upwards 16 units a second for 45 seconds. If he doesn't make it to the top during that time, he teleports... But that all depends on the "oh I r on the elevator" trigger actually working dependably in multiplayer (which I hope I further ensured by moving all the events before any potential chat-bugs might stop the event in question). Additionally, /stuck will allow you to adjust yourself up 8 units with a second delay between uses, in case the players themselves get stuck, and that 16 unit down platform bug-fix flag I described in the bug report forum.

The elevator is repeatable, so if it gets stuck, and Forsuth teleports to the top, the players should be able to follow him one way or the other. Once he teleports up, he wont move again until a player clicks on him - to prevent him from turning around and jumping back down the shaft trying to follow anyone.

Chaos has prevented the multiplayer test so far, not sure if I'll get a shot at setting it up tomorrow. If not, Saturday is out for RL reasons, and it'll have to wait until Sunday. Meh, shoulda had new patch out by now, but bleh... RL + various chaos. I'm hoping on taking a few stabs at getting stacking back sans the char corruption first as well.

As for Stoned's complaints - that is as it should be. Those xbow bastards are among the things that are designed to make the map impossible (or neigh impossible) to solo. Takes at least two players to flank them - especially if there be more than one crossbowman - barring leadfoot potions, of course. I guess HumanSteak figured some trick around that, but I suppose if you were *really* patient, and dragged them out one at a time, it *might* be possible, just, hopefully, not practical.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

 

[zeus9860]

My runs are alot more different than yours, the ones i did after the bear claws/axe of balance addon to the_wall, from what i remember i got these rewards: Bear claws x 3, tork blade x4, tork fire bow x1, tork chaos bow x1, axe of balance x1 and a couple of crashes between some reruns. I havent done more than 10 succesfull runs or so since the may patch and got mostly bear claws/tork blades for drops, the runs i got bear claws were run #1 #8 #9, i did a 10th 2 days ago and got a tork blade again rofl :roll:

Could say these are lucky drops i guess

 

[Thothie]

Given the range of randomness, and the limited number of runs, this is pretty worthless speculation. *IF* by some miracle you manage to finish the_wall, your odds of getting anything Forsuth hands out are all exactly equal. But, alas, random can be a cruel mistress.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

Limited number of runs O_O
I thought 40 runs, roughly 35 of which solo, was pretty damned much tbh

 

[Thothie]

Drawing assumsions from 40d8:


First five results generated from Qbasic program:

CLS

RANDOMIZE TIMER

DIM r(8)

LOCATE 23, 1: PRINT " 12345678"

FOR x = 1 TO 40

	d = INT(RND(1) * 8) + 1
	r(d) = r(d) + 1

	LOCATE 23 - r(d), d + 1
	PRINT "#";

NEXT x

Come back when you've done 16,777,216 runs, then we can talk conspiracy theories.

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

I wasn't doing any speculation though.
You appear to believe that I posted that image to make clear that "the game hates me" or that "bear claws rarely show up" or that "the game hates me and that therefore, bear claws rarely show up" or something similar.

The reason why I posted that image is a lot simpler, though: It's basically a way of saying that the_wall isn't worth my time. I could have stopped after run #25, as there's no reason whatsoever to run any map after getting all the items from it, except when:
- The map gives lots of XP
- Someone you know needs an item from the map

I only did 40 runs total to contribute to the wonderful world of statistics. I did actually believe that the spawn chance for bear claws was lower than for the other seven items, but really, believe me when I say that after my 25th run, I could not care less.

Besides, all the spare rares went to the Blades of Urdual guild bank anyway, so doing those additional fifteen runs wasn't all that bad. Doubly so when you take into consideration that it only takes me 50 minutes to solo the_wall.

tl;dr: My only conclusions from 40 registered runs of the_wall were:
1) Bear claws have a lower spawn chance than the other seven items (incorrect).
2) This map is not worth my time (correct).

My conclusions were not:
1) I only got two pair of bear claws because this game hates me specifically and Thothie implemented lots of anti-J-M-with-bear-claws measures to ruin my life. It is also most likely that the van with blacked out windows in front of my house contains agents hired by Thothie, who are keeping track of what I do in MS:C.
2) Zeus is hacking (got bear claws in his first run).
3) Caluminium is hacking (got three pair of bear claws in ten runs).
4) Thatlittleaznboi is hacking (got bear claws in his second run).

Edit: And I could have easily scripted a similar function in MATLAB R2010a, but because I didn't know the spawn chances, that wouldn't have been of much use.

 

[Shadeska]

I could not care less.

i <3 jm for using this phrase correctly. i'm tired of meeting people who could care less. btw, no caps 'cause i'm eating a muffin. blueberry and sticky. mmmmmmm

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

i <3 jm for using this phrase correctly. i'm tired of meeting people who could care less.

Seconded.

 

[Thothie]

Sry, I r misinterpreted the rant to my response to it to be suggesting you did not believe the spawn chances were even when I said so, and suggesting your 40 runs were proof that they were not.

Whether anything on that list is worth 40 runs is another thing entirely. I still dunno how you folks are getting past Ihotor solo though (even with the sploit). :|

 

[Stoned]

Why not get Skillsasaur to edit the source to make it so you cant attack him from a distance? Make it an enclosed arena so you can only attack him within his vicinity.

 

[Thothie]

OOoooh... Jeeze, I didn't think you could hit him from up there... I'll have to see what I can do.

(Gods... I think I've just killed Stoned, haven't I?)

 

[Stoned]

OOoooh... Jeeze, I didn't think you could hit him from up there... I'll have to see what I can do.

(Gods... I think I've just killed Stoned, haven't I?)

OHF*CK....????

 

[Thothie]

Umm.... In return for your noble sacrifice, I'll make sure that rusty Mourning Star of yours gets in the game come the release of Orc_For. You will be remembered!

There's another sploit that's not as critical but I still need to figure how to fix. I just dun wanna fix it the way I did with the Ice Reavers on MS_Snow so long ago... Although it'd make just as much sense here.

 

[TheOysterHippopotami]

Whether anything on that list is worth 40 runs is another thing entirely. I still dunno how you folks are getting past Ihotor solo though (even with the sploit).

There is still an exploit? Does this involve that one particular summoned creature and one particular potion?
Or is it the 'exploit' that uses one particular potion in conjunction with spamming one particular bow? If it's the latter, I didn't actually realize it was an exploit. I thought that was how you intended the fight to unfold. But using this latter method, even I was able to solo Ihotor back when I had around 750 HP.

Also, to my knowledge, you actually cannot attack Ihotor from above. I thought you actually had to jump inside of that death pit. I certainly have never seen him attacked from above and this is the first I've ever heard of it happening.

 

[Thothie]

I thought we fixed that one... :\ Assuming the summon involves a potion... Not sure about the bow thing... Jeeze, all this exploit talk in public forums.

The intention is you have to go down there and face him, and take advantage of the fact that he can only freeze one player at a time, but there maybe ways around that I've not figured out.

 

[Keldorn]

Nope, you can't hit Ihotor from above, other than with spells that he will out-regen.

 

[Stoned]

Umm.... In return for your noble sacrifice, I'll make sure that rusty Mourning Star of yours gets in the game come the release of Orc_For. You will be remembered!

OHFUCK NOT AGAIN!

Also, to my knowledge, you actually cannot attack Ihotor from above. I thought you actually had to jump inside of that death pit. I certainly have never seen him attacked from above and this is the first I've ever heard of it happening.

<potion related exploit>= Exploit [/Thothie Edits]

 

[Thothie]

Well, if ya have other exploits feel free to PM. I'll keep it on the mum so you don't have to get publicly stoned, like Stoned.

<potion related sploit>= Exploit

I know we rolled one person back for doing that too often, but I thought we fixed it before the last patch... I'm fairly certain it's fixed in the upcoming one.

 

[Keldorn]

(ZOMG CENSORED)

That got patched a while ago, you only deal damage to the monster that you actually hit with X now.