NerfLog 1.0

[Thothie]

*sigh* Tell me, why should I, or anyone on the dev team, waste our free time working for you ungrateful bastards?

Do you want to go back to the days before I got here and supposedly started "nerfing" everything? When the most XP you could get out of any monster was 200XP, and there were only three such epic-XP beasts? When you had two functioning spells (fire dart and erratic lightning) that did a quarter of the damage they do now? When the meanest weapon in the game was a PSB (when was the last time any of you even bothered holding onto a precious Perfect Skull Blade)? When no creature spawned more than once in 10 seconds? When almost nothing passed XP proper, and several monsters even gave negative XP? When, every time you died, you lost 20% of your swordsmanship XP and 20% of you gold, regardless of what level you were? When the max level was 20 (and maybe 8 SC) and that took nearly a years worth of heavy play to achieve?

Make no mistake, by trying to drive me out of here, that's what you are asking for.

...and don't give me the recent "We just wanna go back to MAR2008a XP" or what not. This anti-dev movement lead by J-M and whatever mindless followers he gathered at the time was going on long before then. Hell, it was going on long before I ever got here - before Steam even got here. It will go on, no matter what we do, or what we give.

If you don't want a patch, just say so. Don't hide behind the pretence of being "nerfed" when you, and every 10th level player, are all gods compared to the top players of MSC 1.0.

If, on the other hand, you want Mastersword Continued to live up to its suffix, if you want the game to go on and expand, rather than suffocate in an atmosphere of anti-dev hostility and the apathy it generates in us, stop letting the neigh sayers guide you by the nose and blinders.

I know there's no hope for a lot of you. I've shot down nearly every "nerf" listed, and still you rage against those who are working to keep this game alive, like uninsured republicans fighting health insurance reform. That's why we started deleting posts from those folks, because there is no reasoning with them nor appeasing them. They enjoy riding the waves of the hate bandwagon far too much, and all those folks do is add to apathy that drives so many developers away from this game with nearly every post they make. Those measures may have even saved this game from the miserable shape it is in now, had they been taken sooner.

"TL;DR"? Sorry. Short sound bites can't retort this level of insanity, they can only be the fuel for the fire that continues consume what little hope remains for the future of MSC.

 

[Jelly]

TROLL!

a little more troll.

Stop trolling damnit.

TROLL!

My turn to troll please.

My two cents + a small amount of troll

Explanations & a little venting.

Troll!

TROLL!

Venting and a little threatening.

A little clearing up and more trolling.

Lol at massive trolling war.

Reply.

Troll.

Reply.

[quote"Teh"]Pointing something out.[/quote]

... and it continues like that. Seriously, you guys should stop this. All of you. Nothing good can come of it.

You might consider this post a trolling post too. Even if you don't, please don't respond. This thread is the spawn of hatred and grudges.

 

[zeus9860]

Just going to point something out here, not trying to contribute more to this hatred i guess.

mindless followers

Thats totally wrong bud, everyone has their own way of seeing things. Not my problem if most people see a thing like this and some other people see it like that and so on, you probably get my point...

Now i guess its time to follow Jelly's example!

 

[Borya]

Don't you think it's time we started shouting like insane that we want new stuff, fixes, and balancing in our profession?

I was thinking about it, and honestly I'm tired. Everyone got better stuff, newer stuff, awfully overpowered nanos, and yet with each new patch we seem more ignored.

And I'm not happy as things are now. No, no, no. You can't say, "be happy man, we got new shoulderpads", or "Alba can be done with a melee class, just you don't try hard enough", or whatever you might imagine.

I'm tired of cliché sentences of absolute absurdity, and people fail what we want to see.
So we're #1 DD... like hell, there's so many classes now that deal awesome damage, and it's completely stupid to say we're the best. So don't please. Blame yourself for slacking.
Evades... also... they suck, c'mon, someone please realize it, we're the only class ingame, (with shades), that now lack complete and utter defense.
I want... us... all... to start being so goddamn annoying so something will change in our honor, we will become more versatile, and we WILL be a balanced class.

And I want that. And if you think things are going around well for us, think again, this class is going close to useless in a patch or two.
We want our imprtance back, please, and I beg you to join in with the "whine" about it til we get something. And more!

 

[kai]

So many whiners it's truly ridiculous. ;

I don't truly see the fact why everyone is crying so bad over some of the dumbest things ever, honestly. To me what it seems like is that everyone's going out of their way to argue and shoot down Thothie for ridiculous reasons. This game is small, and on its last legs. The community is small, everyone knows each other basically. In a way, MSC is like a dysfunctional family if you ask me.

I can certainly say the community was bad back in the day, but now this is just getting truly retarded. Thothie brings up valid points, the game was very small originally and had little features, and has expanded so much since then. All this hate and arguing / bitching / moaning is really starting to tear into the dev's heads and make them basically say: "Holy shit I can't deal with this anymore."

This thread to me seems like a poor attempt at baiting people in to bitch and moan. Sure, the thread points out valid items that were degraded or lessened to make the game more fair or "nerf" so that they can possibly be fixed back in the future, but other than that, why must you all attack Thothie?

He works hard for the mod. How long has he chewed his time down into the mod for everyone to HAVE new things, items, maps and content? He's a nice going guy and gives generously. Some people in this community are guilty of just being childish. From my point of view, the "nerf's" aren't really that big of a deal. If you all take the game that seriously that you need to go all out and bitch like this, then something's wrong. You may need to take a break and walk around the block, because it's apparent you might play the game a bit too much.

Thothie is right. A lot of you ARE whining. He creates a new item for people to have and play with, people get used to how that item is in that patch, the item gets tweaked next patch, whether it's making the attack rate slower, or lessening the damage by a bit, and automatically it seems like everyone begins to bitch about how "oh it's been nerfed!"

Sure, some tweaks aren't always that great and a bit lame, but really? Why do you have to make a big deal out of it? If you don't like the change, DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME. Stop crying like a bunch of kids. It's fucking annoying.

Too many of you have been crying and complaining for the longest time now that it's cost the dev team valuable members by most of them being scared off because of the simple fact: "I don't wanna deal with this shit." pretty much.

Every post Thothie makes he points out VERY valid points, and most of you don't take the time to read because you seem to have some personal grudge against him just because he "nerfed" some items, or took away EXP from monsters. BUT, I won't lie, some things Thothie said had some sneer undertone's or comments that were a bit uncalled for. But out of all honesty, you're probably pissing him off.

To be honest, if I was Thothie, I'd just start hard-coding bans. Fuck being fair. If you want to whine and cry about everything, go play another game. Stop tearing apart a game with limitless potential just because of "nerfing."

TL;DR - Stop crying. Get the fuck over the the nerfs, it's just a game. Is your sense of entitlement decreed that much that you must attack dev members of a GOOD game because of pixels which do absolutely nothing?

 

[ceriux]

actually i dont think anyone was whining when the post was made. someone made a list of data that was already posted somewhere in the forums. the user who posted it may have added in a comment here or there that may have been their opinion , but i dont think any whining started till someone came in to flame the thread. so... i think those starting the fights or bitching and moaning are those who are the ones complaining about those of us posting our opinions or thoughts twards things. IF those nerfs were so bad i think they'd stop playing the game. so personally id suggest all of those people bashing this thread to turn around and point the finger some where else and stop blaming people for stupid things when you just dont like the subject of their post....

 

[Hemeriodius]

Open your eyes Ceriux. This thread may seem like just a list of recent nerfs on the surface, but it doesn't take a genius to see that it was clearly made wth a different intention.

 

[zeus9860]

Open your eyes Ceriux. This thread may seem like just a list of recent nerfs on the surface, but it doesn't take a genius to see that it was clearly made wth a different intention.

The start of this thread didnt have anything to do with non more the less than just the list about nerfs posted by tradion. The thread got a bit "offtopic" and turned into a flame party because of debates.

To be honest, if I was Thothie, I'd just start hard-coding bans. **** being fair. If you want to whine and cry about everything, go play another game. Stop tearing apart a game with limitless potential just because of "nerfing."

Oh hey, let's be a smartass and IP BAN the leftover players in this community who still do care about the gameplay of msc, also you just whined and made no sense to me. I would just go back to the writting section of the forums if i were you.

No one is whining about things, we are just expressing thoughts on what would be better before changing things. It's pretty much this community is devided in 2 parts, the people who work for the mod such has Thothie, change things without asking a thing to the community if it would sound better if X option is better than Y option. From my point of view, each time there was a change to the game in anyway, the communty itself would diserve the chance to debate on that and classify the best option suited by the community. That's pretty much how a community works these days, you can't just think on yourself and think the others will accept it so lightly. AND i do know its just impossible for this community to get along now since this comes from the past also, it will just keep on going untill it falls apart. Some of you people need to wake up and stop living in the past and think about the future instead.

 

[Sabre]

And you can't think that every single change made should be one in your favor. In the real world, game developers don't give a submarining f*ck about your opinion. If they feel something has to be toned down, they do it. Of course, they'll get a lot of people that whine and moan because their favorite weapon doesn't do as much damage anymore, but it falls on deaf ears, even with Valve, who do interact with the community.

We cannot be a community mod when all the community wants is for everything to be overpowered, and when changes are made, we get this. So, Thothie clearly doesn't give a sh!t anymore, and if he leaves (which, I am surprised he has not done already), then I wouldn't be surprised if any further development goes with him. The game's code is already a nightmare to navigate, from what I've heard, and developers obviously aren't lining up to work with us.

Deal with the fact that all your weapons don't do over 9000 damage, and you don't get 5 levels for each boss you kill. The real world of gaming just doesn't work that way. Of course, maybe the level system could be massively inflated so that you get 300,000 XP for killing a rat, but it takes 5,000,000 XP to get to level 2. Whatever makes you feel better about yourselves.

 

[Borya]

I've heard through the grapevine that someone put Tradion up to this, which sort of makes sense, both in that Tradion has said not a word since the thread's inception, and because it could be that our shadowy figure behind this might want to test the waters before launching a plan most diabolical.

And before anyone suggests it, I highly doubt that it was any of the "usual suspects", because they're man enough to just post their qualms on their own, like they have in both the past, and a bit in this thread too from what I've seen.

 

[kai]

Open your eyes Ceriux. This thread may seem like just a list of recent nerfs on the surface, but it doesn't take a genius to see that it was clearly made wth a different intention.

The start of this thread didnt have anything to do with non more the less than just the list about nerfs posted by tradion. The thread got a bit "offtopic" and turned into a flame party because of debates.

To be honest, if I was Thothie, I'd just start hard-coding bans. **** being fair. If you want to whine and cry about everything, go play another game. Stop tearing apart a game with limitless potential just because of "nerfing."

Oh hey, let's be a smartass and IP BAN the leftover players in this community who still do care about the gameplay of msc, also you just whined and made no sense to me. I would just go back to the writting section of the forums if i were you.

No one is whining about things, we are just expressing thoughts on what would be better before changing things. It's pretty much this community is devided in 2 parts, the people who work for the mod such has Thothie, change things without asking a thing to the community if it would sound better if X option is better than Y option. From my point of view, each time there was a change to the game in anyway, the communty itself would diserve the chance to debate on that and classify the best option suited by the community. That's pretty much how a community works these days, you can't just think on yourself and think the others will accept it so lightly. AND i do know its just impossible for this community to get along now since this comes from the past also, it will just keep on going untill it falls apart. Some of you people need to wake up and stop living in the past and think about the future instead.

Care about the gameplay of MSC? ROFL.

If they cared about the gameplay, maybe they'd stop crying and complaining to the devs about nerfing and EXP so at least the mod has a FUTURE of gameplay. Because what you don't understand is the bickering is taking a toll on the devs, hell, DEV, basically. Thothie is one of the last of a handful around, and let's face it, the most experienced of them all.

Also, I'm not whining at all. It's quite the contrary. Maybe if you had half a god damn brain you'd be able to pick up on my point. Me and Sabre certainly see eye to eye as exactly what his post stated is how I view it. Your little smart remarks about staying in the writing section as well are a prime example of the dickhole behavior of the community that makes the devs want to give up. Most of you are just unappreciative.

I think the real thing here most people are guilty of is childishness. Some of you should just grow up. It's a free to play mod, you should certainly be damn well thankful Thothie even dealt with most of your crap for this long. :/

 

[ceriux]

from what iv seen from a lot of these nerfs the items werent just nerfed they were completely changed, i mean look at the phoenix armor? it used to regen health but now mana? why not just lower the amount that i did on hp? (note iv never had phoenix armor) some of the items seem to have turned into a completely different item than what they once were. Personally, there should be some epic type items, just make them extremely hard to find. its a point to nerf weapons for the good of something, but why would you also want to make items so weak? personally i think ms:c just needs to be remade from scratch. i think most of the issues surrounding it , is because of its code, content, and some of the ideas on how to run the mod.

 

[littleaznboi]

issues surrounding it , is because of its code, content, and some of the ideas on how to run the mod.

 

[Hemeriodius]

from what iv seen from a lot of these nerfs the items werent just nerfed they were completely changed, i mean look at the phoenix armor? it used to regen health but now mana? why not just lower the amount that i did on hp? (note iv never had phoenix armor) some of the items seem to have turned into a completely different item than what they once were.

This is a bad thing?

If you don't understand the dynamics of how games like MSC work then don't complain about it not working the exact way you want it to. If MSC worked the way most "Team-Whine" members wanted it to then it would end in about 2 days and be an overly easy and boring experience.

 

[zeus9860]

If MSC worked the way most "Team-Whine" members wanted it to then it would end in about 2 days and be an overly easy and boring experience.

Its almost the same shit if it goes the way DEVs plan themselves, just think about it. I dont even know why i bother replying and checking this community lately, this is like a hell hole that will never work properly or get along without collaboration of both sides.

 

[Jelly]

End this thread please.

 

[Thothie]

In response to that, I should point out, that if I hadn't been listening to this community, and indeed fighting for you - all your characters would have been deleted by the subsequent team (and by the gods do I regret taking up that charge). 90% of everything I've put into this game has been a direct result of community input.


When you are "expressing opinions" about "game balance" you don't complain about things being removed that rendered characters invulnerable. You don't call items in MSCave being upgraded to some of the best of the era, and moved as a result, a "nerf" (especially when we upgraded the ones you already acquired, free of charge). You certainly don't go comparing a single player game's "balance" (Oblivion) to an MORPG. And you very most certainly don't concentrate exclusively on things that took power away from your character, when things that added power to your character outnumber them to better than 1000 to 1.

Not that I don't get sick of hearing folks who do care about game balance complain that the h4xbow or blooddrinker is overpowered, or what not, but since they actually have the items in question, at least I know their concerns are genuine, and not a simple grab for power nor for the support of the lowest common denominator. These folks, at least, actually care about MSC, and aren't lead by folks determined to end it.

This is therefore obviously not a list of "opinions". It's just an effort to incite more hate, prove to the unthinking and self-absorbed that he's right, and bring more people into the folds of team whine. (And yes, I know Tradion didn't write the list. Not too long ago, if Tradion had his way, you wouldn't even have votemap - so it's particularly disheartening to see him become yet another tool of J-M's and his lieutenant's efforts. The membership of Team Whine is always changing, but the one consistency it's always had, is that J-M has always been the lead instigator and recruiter. If he's a "scapegoat", I'm unaware of what sin we're trying to tie to his back that isn't entirely his own.)

MiB and myself are the last two people with enough comprehensive knowledge of this game's inner workings to get a patch out anytime soon. MiB is so sick of Team Whine, he won't even come to the forums anymore - not even to pick up PM's from other developers - slowing things to a crawl. My apathy is quickly approaching his own. If we both go down, there will simply be no patch, no new maps, no nothing - and all those other artists efforts will go into the void. Sure, someone else may brave the slings and arrows and pick up the slack, and maybe even be capable of it in yet another year - but who do you think is going to take the time to train them? Not either of us, that's for sure.

If we'd kept the pace we had back in early 2008, if team whine's efforts hadn't paid off so well, the game world would easily have been completed by now, and we'd just be looking into extra expansions. Half of you would be gods by now - not just in the figurative sense that you already are - but Avatars: in MSC terms, gods in the literal sense.

Team Whine has already won. They've managed to stop all patches for well over a year now. Revel in your victory Team Whine, you've destroyed MSC... Breath in the ashes.

...and yes, go ahead, blame Thothie instead of yourselves - but name one other human being who would work for a community this ungrateful for this long? I'm completely within my rights to walk away and let the whole project die without a twinge of guilt or an ounce of blame. We gave you some of our best, and all we got in return, was greed-motivated blind hate.

 

[ceriux]

see another problem i seem to be seeing is that there are two types of players one type gets everything exactly how they want it. they're happy with the game and how its been changed , upgraded, or worked on. But there's another unhappy group? "team whine" they seem to be unhappy because none or very little of what they like to be in the mod is actually there? (once again iv never been a high level i like to solo and that seems close to impossible unless you play nonstop grinding and repeatably doing the same quest over and over.) so im not sure what goes where and how well the items are balanced. but what i can tell like i said before is that there is a group of players that they feel nothing is meeting their expectations of what fun gameplay is. IF in fact all they want is to be gods (rather than that just being "team whatever's" oppinion) then sure just flame them and ignore them or better yet why not just ignore them all together and continue on to "prove them wrong by releasing something good" like i was trying to get at before. you both seem to make team whine to me. personally i dont like ms:c at all its a rpg mod that forces you to group up unless your a grind freak... and well im no grind freak and im very anti social. So to me i love ms:c for what it is/was but what ever its been becoming over time i dislike greatly. on top of that any and just about all content given to it (or it has given itself ) is no where near to par for me. throwing un matching or un worth content has also ruined it for me. I didnt mind so much when the game was still fun. Maybe both team whines should work together to try and make the game fun while also making it balanced. rather than fighting and bitching at each other.

 

[FER]

Single player mode wouldnt hurt no doubt.

I kinda get the unmatching content (the borrowed models?) but dont understand what you have in mind with unworth (useless weapons in a hard map?)
Personally I dont like seeing those models too, and I hope those models would get replaced in the future, but It would be much easier with some help, seeing as right now im pretty much with my hands full If I were to sum up all the stuff that should be done.

 

[Borya]

Ceriux, I believe there are a couple of glaring...things...in your post.

i like to solo and that seems close to impossible unless you play nonstop grinding and repeatably doing the same quest over and over

So I, on a whim, decided to not tl;dr your post, and I see this! Something's a bit off here. Most of the people I've played with have done most of their leveling solo, and very few of them did so while grinding in a frenzy. In fact, there are very few things that require much of grinding, and they don't come until you're already high level (that is, to go from High Level to High Level+ or from High Level+ to High Level++), and even then, you can mold your gameplay habits to turn this from a standard grind to more of something that comes naturally as you explore the game world.

personally i dont like ms:c at all its a rpg mod that forces you to group up unless your a grind freak... and well im no grind freak and im very anti social.

Actually, the only thing you're SUGGESTED to group for is obtaining rare items, due certain item drop calculations. In fact, grouping to grind usually is DETRIMENTAL to all parties involved because of the way XP gains work, with there being inadequate scaling of encounters in most situations that I've seen. Because of this, you'll (or someone else in the group) end up having to fight like mad for a share of the XP pie if the amount of damage each person does is unequal (which it most likely will). Both with standard combat sitations as well as with mind-numbing grinds, from what I've seen, your XP/hr is severely diminished when you team with people who do anything other than stand around twiddling their thumbs and/or being healb*tches/buffwhores. Although if you can get one or two people to talk with, it can make any grind session not just bearable, but likely enjoyable.

Now while I could comment on the rest of your post, it'd only boil down to trolling, so I won't...
But continue on like MS:C is a horrible grind pre-High Level/High Level+, or that you're forced to team for ANYTHING XP RELATED, do not expect the same

 

[ceriux]

oh well than your idea of being able to level fast solo is crazy as fuck, and if your right about grouping im really really sad for those of you actually enjoying the game and grouping to play. as it must take you FOREVER! therefore i now have to side with team whine. what you people seem to think "balanced" is actually just to make everything minuscule as possible. I could have probably agree'd with this when content was so little. but there's a reason iv never been high level, because after awhile i dont feel its worth the work to go any further. the game becomes unbelievably boring. as it takes forever just to level unless i play for days. i might agree its easier at first. but, after the first few levels it takes forever unless you want to be a joat which i also hate being a part of msc. even for those who dont agree with me on "team whine" about joat i think it might also be a cause of problems with exp. now that being said, yes we may be "team whine" but at least we're not team whine even though we get everything we want, because to me you still whine a lot! just because you choose to kiss developers asses doesnt mean that you bitching at people who arnt enjoying the game because its just being developed to the needs of a select few instead of the entire community, does not mean your not whining , hell if anything yes we whine =) be at least we dont constantly bitch. k thnx fuck you.

 

[Hemeriodius]

Ceriux, i take it your the kind of person who would go onto the forums for say, Oblivion and complain that it doesnt have enough Mech Suits and machine guns right?

 

[Borya]

Wow, is that how you respond when people try to talk to you? I guess you weren't kidding when you said antisocial

Hell, you sound like the kinda person who wouldn't be happy unless the rats in Edana gave roughly 10k XP and had a 10% chance of dropping a random piece of Loda loot. I can at least understand where Team-Whine is coming from most of the time, but you're taking it way over the edge. Perhaps you should just stick to games that don't have complex concepts such as becoming more powerful as you play through the game, or anything with any amount of challenge that might grant the rest of us a feeling of accomplishment

 

[ceriux]

no to both of your statements. id say it just needs to be raised slightly. i dont think it should take hours to get levels then days. maybe at higher levels. but not low through mid.

 

[Truewarrior]

You sound like the kinda person who wouldn't be happy unless the rats in Edana gave roughly 10k XP and had a 10% chance of dropping a random piece of Loda loot.

OMG! yes please!

Just look how awesome it would be if you would log into the game and see little rats come to you and pimp the hell out of you, woot. Ill take care of your boars anytime old man.