The forgotten outpost - RELEASED

[Thothie]

Hmm... Thothie I'm interested in learning how to code C++... yet I don't understand the Beginner's Books too well... think you can give me some form of hint as to understand it better?

Or do I have to learn normal C first, I haven't been able to find a book to teach that yet (this is all for pure hobby use just to let you know). I suppose I would like to understand more about how computers & their affiliated programs work.

Yes, first you must learn A, B, and C- ... Okay, I kid... :roll:

You might be best off starting with Javascript, since programing syntax and structure is similar, and you don't need a compiler or any extra software (just internet explorer, and notepad). In addition, it's easy to make useful stuff very quickly. There are lots of on-line tutorials for Javascript, although I wouldn't be able to point at one that's better than the others off hand. ( google for Javascript Tutorial )

theres a few of the shrub/bush textures i can use....
no dead tree models that i see though....

Hmm... Dead trees are pretty easy to build in Hammer. Keep simple, illusionary, and playerclipped and they shouldn't add too much to your render times. Also, if you have Jed's Model Viewer, it's not too hard to turn a live tree into a dead one, by changing some textures. (Make leaves pure-blue, and set to transparent to make em vanish - then find a burnt wood texture to replace the bark.)

There's also
msc/models/misc/tree1.mdl
and
msc/models/misc/tree3.mdl

Both of which are fairly decent looking dead trees - you can rescale them and save them under different names, if you need them larger or smaller.

 

[evilsquirrel]

alright, i'll have a look at those...and try the model viewer thingeh when i get some time

i'll probably be adding the trees last, just wherever they fit in...but check out dem screenies

if anyone has feedback about those screenshots, i'd appreciate it.



___________

tomorows chance of being productive: 50%

Variables: girlfriends parents -.-

 

[Netrogor]

Thanks Thothie

 

[evilsquirrel]

ummmmmmmmmmm >___________________>


i kinda slacked off for a while...because of things in that thing called RL...

had a bit of a problem i needed to fix...that took a few days, then after that i went on a mini-vacation type thing, and now i'm back!

well, so far today i've fixed what the vertex manipulation broke last time...and i made the caves, which are pretty much done, unless someone doesn't like them and can give some suggestions for how to make them better (you'll see them if you join my server while i test)

so, the things that are left now...

cliff detailing - still
dead trees/shrubs
nulling unerachable areas
slightly destroyed buildings
npc (ally) placement
get the orcs to work properly


might seem like alot...but the cliff detail...i just need to figure a good way of doing it, and i'll probably use the trees and shrubs to detail it. the biggest thing will probably be getting the orcs to function properly, and actually go in and kill the guy you're protecting...

 

[J-M v2.5.5]

You mean cliff detailing like this? Or do you want it more detailed?

 

[evilsquirrel]

that ammount of detail would be awesome

unfortunately, i need a cliff that monsters can walk along and RAIN FIRE FROM ABOVE!!! MUAHAHAHAAHAH

*cough*

erm...i mean...a ledge...yeah...thats what i mean...>_>


anyways...i've been adding vis blockers, and now theres quite a few large rocks around, needless to say that getting on these rocks would not help you at all, so i will be playerclipping them to stop you from getting distracted and letting the supervisor die...


tonight i'm going to do a full compile while i'm asleep, this is to test the ladders and shrubs to make sure they are (rendering?) properly...because without a full compile, they are very black and blue....

theres a few bugs with the skybox which should be fixed in the next version i put out, causing parts of the map to be shown instead of the skybox...if nothing else i'll be adding some completely unreachable cliffs to block people from seeing those...

...keep postin, i need interesting things to read whilst i work on this map

 

[Vomica7]

**SUGGESTION**

on the cliff, make the top part curve back.

 

[evilsquirrel]

several comments this time:

1) was that suggestion for me? it could vastly increase wpoly's and thereby make the map laggeh, but i'll try it in a later version if the current plan is efficient enough.

2) problem. i did a full compile today and there were a few problems.......shadows being placed wrong...also, things that were supposed to have invisible backgrounds (IE: bushes, ladders, and railings) did not have invisible backgrounds, they were still black and blue with a full compile.


on the plus side, it does look quite a bit better with a full compile than it does on fullbright

 

[Crow]

on those black and blue things, make sure render mode is solid, and fxamount is 255

 

[evilsquirrel]

i've just done that, and tried a fast vis compile, but some of them still have blue...to be more specific, it is the "{brushstuff2" texture that is staying blue.

other than that...theres just one...tiny...itty bitty problem...r_speeds...

most of the time my wpolys sit around 400-700...but in certain areas of the map, the wpolys go up to 1100-1200, will that be a problem in msc? if it will be, i'll have to figure out some way of decreasing them...perhaps i'll null a few things before i try again, to see if that helps much.

 

[evilsquirrel]

minor complaint about the outpost superintendant...he seems to be hostile, and likes to kill his fellow archers and guards...


on the plus side for RELEASE DATE i've simply made a 'marker' for where the fort is, so...it looks like crap...but that finishes all of the map except for the monsters and a bit more detailing of the caves...oh yes, and i'll need some more lights around...but thats easy (once i find that darn torch model [WHERE IS IT]).


and, another + for release date! i've got the monsters in...just making the waves now, and going to figure out how to put more than one type of monster in one wave...



SUGGESTION TIME!

number of waves?

1 wave? hellz no.

4 wave is the minimum suggestion...


include the waves in the following format.


Wave1:

(X) orc warriors
(X) orc archers
(X) blackhand warriors
(X) blackhand archers
(X) orcish flayers
(X) elite blackhand archer
(X) Normal trolls
(X) Troll lobbers
(X) Hideous cave trolls
(X) Ice trolls
(X) Fire shaman
(X) (other?)

Wave2:

(X) orc warriors
(X) orc archers
(X) blackhand warriors
(X) blackhand archers
(X) orcish flayers
(X) elite blackhand archer
(X) Normal trolls
(X) Troll lobbers
(X) Hideous cave trolls
(X) Ice trolls
(X) Fire shaman
(X) (other?)

ETC...


waves should get harder...not all monsters will be out at once...players are expected to be 25+ and in a group of at least 3.

 

[Thothie]

minor complaint about the outpost superintendant...he seems to be hostile, and likes to kill his fellow archers and guards...

Hmmm... He *should* get along with Helena and Deralia guards just fine... He might have issues with guards not of the "hguard" faction - but even then, he shouldn't attack unless attacked first. What guard/archer scripts are you using?

(X) orc warriors
(X) orc archers
(X) blackhand warriors
(X) blackhand archers
(X) orcish flayers
(X) elite blackhand archer
(X) Normal trolls
(X) Troll lobbers
(X) Hideous cave trolls
(X) Ice trolls
(X) Fire shaman
(X) (other?)

Umm... If you have one of each of those, you maybe okay - but too many more monsters than that spawning and hunting all at once can cause issues, particularly over a large or complicated area. They may go brain dead, lag the server to death, or worse. You can mitigate BD by placing an ms_npc with the scriptname "other/make_mons_dumb" but it doesn't solve all the problems, and your monsters will become horrible navigators.

going to figure out how to put more than one type of monster in one wave...

Same as any other monsters - just different script files for each monster type. You may have issues getting fireallperish to work though. If so, you'll need to use the trigger_counter method described yonder.

 

[ceriux]

yea, actually thats easy.

make 1 spawn area, and add both monsters spawning in it without triggers, or have the same trigger spawn them both.

 

[evilsquirrel]

minor complaint about the outpost superintendant...he seems to be hostile, and likes to kill his fellow archers and guards...

Hmmm... He *should* get along with Helena and Deralia guards just fine... He might have issues with guards not of the "hguard" faction - but even then, he shouldn't attack unless attacked first. What guard/archer scripts are you using?

(X) orc warriors
(X) orc archers
(X) blackhand warriors
(X) blackhand archers
(X) orcish flayers
(X) elite blackhand archer
(X) Normal trolls
(X) Troll lobbers
(X) Hideous cave trolls
(X) Ice trolls
(X) Fire shaman
(X) (other?)

Umm... If you have one of each of those, you maybe okay - but too many more monsters than that spawning and hunting all at once can cause issues, particularly over a large or complicated area. They may go brain dead, lag the server to death, or worse. You can mitigate BD by placing an ms_npc with the scriptname "other/make_mons_dumb" but it doesn't solve all the problems, and your monsters will become horrible navigators.

firstly, i just used what i could find...some archers which are friendly to the player, i guess one of them shot him and then he goes after them...

scriptfile = mercenaries/archerf


second part...i wont be making them dumb...it would make this way too easy...i've made some random-ish numbers of monsters to spawn in each wave...so heres the tally!

1: 6
2: 11
3: 6
4: 7
5: 13
6: 13

if any of those are too large...i can cut them down a bit...i've yet to test...

 

[Thothie]

If yer biggest wave is 13, you should be okay. There's no definite cap I could give you (I'd be guessing between 12 and 24 depending on the monster, map entities, terrain, and activity), you'll have to experiment yourself to be sure.

I'd have to know what specific script names you are using before I can attempt to fix the conflict. "helena/archer" should be fine with him though; TBH I can't think of a human archer who wouldn't be, off hand, tis why I ask :/

edit: yeah, mercenaries/archerf is either old or a compatibility script. (I think it's actually supposed to be a female archer). I'll put it on my list of things to update - but meantime, helena/archer should be fine.

 

[evilsquirrel]

roger that thothie...

and since you're in such a helpful mood at the moment...howbout telling me where the torch model is T_T


aside from that, i was thinking i had to do something special to put muiltiple types of monsters in each wave, but apparently not...i should finish that by the end of tomorow...and if you give me the torch's model name/location i'll have lighting in the caves...speakin of which i gotta add a bit of detail to them breaking open, maybe i'll have a little fun with that XD

but ah...yeah...that should all be done tomorow with ease...assuming i'm not kidnapped, theres been lots of alien abductions going on around these forums you know


[after thats all done, i'll do a mini-compile to test for minor bugs and then a full compile to release it in a beta state!]

[while the beta is going, i'd like input on how hard it is (with included level) and i'll be working on redoing the fort-type-thingy and my next project in the series, which some of you may find...slightly humorus...]

 

[Thothie]

Torch model doesn't provide light itself lest you spawn it as an item (I think you know that, but JIC) - I keep hoping to make dynamic light scripts for mappers - so you can have lights move from place to place and the like and/or cycle colors without adding to map size / compile time. Issue being MSC lights tend to "stick" to things they shouldn't for no apparent reason.

Torch is included in msc/models/misc/p_misc.mdl - submodel 37'ish.

 

[evilsquirrel]

thankyou thothie, i'll be working on my map as soon as i'm back from classes...and i had planned on putting a light on the torch model, to give th illusion that the torch was giving off the light

 

[evilsquirrel]

so about that brain death...

things might take a bit longer than 'before friday' to get done, due to the critters brains dying on the second wave....i think that corpse spam might be the culprit, so i'll have to make corpses disappear...

second thing...when i use p_misc, all i get is apples...



other than that and a bug caused by stupidity [fixed], it should be [nearly] completely working...

 

[Thothie]

second thing...when i use p_misc, all i get is apples...

You have to set the submodel (Body) in env_model to 37.

As for the BD, your best hope is to reduce the # of monsters, and instead rely on meaner ones. It also helps to reduce the # of entities on the map.

 

[evilsquirrel]

second thing...when i use p_misc, all i get is apples...

You have to set the submodel (Body) in env_model to 37.

As for the BD, your best hope is to reduce the # of monsters, and instead rely on meaner ones. It also helps to reduce the # of entities on the map.

i can count the entities in the map on one hand...discluding func_wall and the monsters themselves...and reducing the number of monsters wont really work...

but the first wave worked fine, so i think its the bodies added to the monster spawns...i'll have to add the "Wave 1 has started" messages too...i've done nothing today, busy with homework.

 

[Thothie]

func_walls count too, more so than some other objects, actually.

I'm surprised you can't get away with fewer but meaner mons, given the array of orcs and trolls we have... I was planning to add some mean, Orc_warboss sized 'Orc Brawlers' if you need more mean orcs. Might also consider using the double_health and quad_health ms_npscripts, see if those help.

 

[evilsquirrel]

i would add the exra health to them...but it basicly makes them meatbags :\

it'd be useful for things like trolls, but i'd rather not do it to everything...


as it stands i've already got really mean monsters...and without new ones i dont see them getting any meaner...and there aren't too many func_wall...i'll cut them down though...more world brushes, less func_wall...

if i could get a reskin and two new models for trolls i could make it a whole troll-based map...which would bump its level up from the intended 25+ to about 30-35+, but...still...

that'd also require a few script changes...sorry

models needed if i were to do that:

i'd need a troll with some bad lookin armor, ripped up leather, or wood strapped to him...and a helmet of some sort. those would serve as "troll warriors" stronger than hideous cave trolls, more health, slightly more damage, has a club that knocks people away.

and the second one...a troll warboss type thing...someone use your imagination for this one, i got nothin (maybe he's got some fancier armor and tatoos? maybe he's not bald? short ponytail?)

the script changes...the head would need to roll off of the troll warboss...and the supervisor would need to accept that head isntead... (this would actually help with the current problem...people runing around with graznux's head from orcplace)

_____________


if the monsters were trolls only, it'd be easy to have very few of them...since they smash stuff so well...




Thothie, you're about to have a PM with the monsters i currently have in the map on it...

 

[Thothie]

it'd be useful for things like trolls, but i'd rather not do it to everything...

Prob good for the high end orcs too, but I can't promise it'll work.

trolls...

Hey, if you do the reskins, I'll add the scripts. I mean, if we're just talking trolls with more damage, more HP, and some armor resistance, no problem. For the troll chief, I'd prob scale him up some. Making him drop his head is also no problem, but having it physically 'roll off' would require drastic model changes.

Oh yeah - and demons get along with trolls and orcs. This means you can use Efreet or even Horrors if you're feelin real mean. Horror + fireshaman wave may make some sense. Fire Shamman Elder's are also on the monster to-do list, but more complex than the troll requests.

 

[evilsquirrel]

i suddenly need a horror wave


and i can *try* my hand at reskinning...tatoos might not be a problem...maybe...but they might looka little funky...

it actually didn't take me long to put together the current waves, so if i can get those trolls i suppose the troll warriors can do without a new model for awhile, or you could use MC:Troll!!!! XD....no...dont...

one question though, what about bludgeon demons? would it take long to fix them?

oh and, i'd like the trolls to be a little pushy if you can do that

who knows? maybe i'll get bored and people will get that troll city they've been begging for after this map*

well, if you give me some basic instructions i'll try reskinning for the troll chief guy, and ah...since this map is going up up up in level requirements, once its out i'd advise changing the rewards in that chest (perhaps a good location for some new items?)

though, i dont know how i'm going to handle the whole deal with the chest...you see, it was planned that your reward is actually on a different map! and since that map is in MiB's section of our expansion, i dont know how soon that's going to get done, i might add a temporary little secret area to gather your rewards...and when the full pack is done, it will be discarded, or turned into a secret with some nifty pictures, or something...

better stop before i ramble...wait...too late
______________________
*Disclaimer: No, you will not be getting a troll city directly after this map is released, my next project is planned already and you will like it...or else...